Grand Prix 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Martin Brundle, for many years, didn't attend the Hungarian Grand Prix. Why was this I hear you ask, and even if you didn't I'm going to tell you!

Hungary was, for many years, a Communist state aligned with the Warsaw Pact and staunch supporter of the Soviet Union. In 1956 the people of Hungary got a bit naffed off with making shoes in one factory and then sending them next door for them to be taken apart, or spending a week digging ditches, and then spending the next week filling them in again, but hey the Polit Bureau had targets to meet. Anyway, I digress in to the detail of the pointlessness of Communist, centralised dictat and it's affect on the proletariat, back to 1956.

Students marched through Budapest to object to Communist rule. They started in Buda and finished in Pest, although it might have been the other way round. Now the Russians weren't all that well disposed to the Hungarians anyway as they sided with the Germans in WW2 and helped in the invasion of the Motherland. And they really took umbridge at this bunch of upstarts objecting to having a dictator imposed on them from Moscow, so between the Russians and Hungarian Communists it was decided that these student should be made to be quiet.

We used to have such student protest here in the UK but they now spend so much time depressed and worrying about the huge debts they are racking up by going to University they don't have the energy to moan about anything other than the price of a Mojito or Porn Star Martini in the student union bar.

I'm wandering again.

Rather than pop outside their offices and ask the students politely if they would mind buggering off home as it was a bit noisy and no one else seemed to really care, and even if they did they knew better as they would be whisked off to a gulag and have electrodes attached to their testicles, the powers that be decided to go all Tiananmen Square on the protesters before the Chinese had even thought of it. There's nothing new under the sun I tells ya!

The tanks went in and battles between the Soviet forces and Hungarian militia raged. This, presumably, was seen as a reasonable alternative to sitting down with the protesters, discussing their issues and seeing how the lives of ordinary people could be improved to the point where they didn't want to grab a gun and shoot all and any members of the Communist Party.

I'm sure you are wondering what all this has to do with Martin Brundle. Well back then he wasn't good old, grid walking Martin Brundle of which ever TV channel had just parted with a Kings ransom to show the meagre fare that is modern Formula One. Oh no, back then he was Martinov Brundelski, ice cream maker and frozen dessert entrepreneur. During the uprising, which was over the summer , Martinov sensed an opportunity to make a dime, or rouble, or whatever currency the Hungarian were using.

He packed up his Ice Cream van with his latest creations; acorn surprise, crab apple sorbet, plantain and pampas grass lollies, and the ever popular cows udders delight, and headed off to the big city to make his fortune. When he arrived it was a bit trickier than he had anticipated as he had to weave between T34 tanks, armoured personnel carriers and various howitzers, all the time with "Do you wanna be my lover" tinkling out from the vans bells to call the hot, hungry and thirsty revolutionaries to partake of his wares.

His ability to dart between tanks, avoid howitzer shells and still get two scoops of potato mash ice cream in to a cone for a burly fighter did not go unnoticed. Lurking in the dark recesses of the Polit Bureau offices was Bernardoff Ecclestonev, at that time just in the early stages of his meglomania, and he spotted that whoever this young man was he had a future as a racing driver.

Ecclestonev tracked the young Brundelski down and smuggled him over to Kings Lynn. There Martinov Brundelski changed his name to Martin Brundle, and to make his integration in to the local Community more legitimate brought his sister with him and married her shortly after arrival.

Since that day Martin Brundle, or Martinov Brundelski, has been unable to travel to Hungary for fear of having his nads liberated from the rest of his body by any of those who purchased some of his frozen desserts during the long, hot summer of 1956.

Enjoy the Grand Prix.

Some aspect of this story may have been fabricated for comic effect. This is not meant, in any way, to trivialise the death and suffering of those who lost their lives during the Hungarian uprising.
 
Last edited:

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
thats got to be record surely. to have 2 podiums without being able to stand on them
------‐---------------------------------
cider_and_toast do we know why it has to be a litre. as what does 1L give that 300ml cant
The 1l is to do with the amount that they need to put in the mass spectroscopy machine to test the make up (allegedly)… i’m amazed they can‘t do that with only 100ml though..,
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Hamilton would get 2 more points on Verstappen

I was going to say Ocon is in good company in that two world champions won their first race in Hungary although the last debut winner was a total flop Heikki Kovalainen☹
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
well finally calmed down after that. what a race. but i might have to check but im sure its been quite a few years where the final race before the summer break has been a classic

although i though Vettel wouldve taken the victory on the track to what wouldve been to no avail. because he was the quicker car. but still a brilliant drive from ocon, because to defensive driving all race under that pressure without a mistake is always very impressive. its been huge turnaround since the Austria doubleheader & well done to Vettel he seemingly got his mojo back best ive seen him since pre germany 2018

you talk about ocon without Alonso, a true team effort because Alonso won that race for Alpine as much Ocon wont it. because That battle with Lewis, that was Brilliant entertainment, everything you want to see in F1 hopefully more in 2022. Alonso sealed the win for ocon by holding off lewis. as even 1 or 2 more laps & lewis couldve pulled off another 1 of his miracle drives

glad to hear Hamilton is ok. he did look pretty shattered on podium but then he put alot into that race & then added to it when adrenaline wore off. it wouldve been a crash. but doctors saw him & it was mild exhaustion & dizziness. on them incredible drives. i never get how people can doubt Lewis Hamilton talent as its indisputable to me you cant produce the incredible drives he does season in season out. by being lucky. if you asked for hamilton top 10 poles/win in F1. everyone would have a different list. as there are so many too choose & where do you start

over the moon for george russell he drove brilliantly for 3 years. constantly impressing. but against a torrent of bad luck & bad fortune everytime he got close, he finally got what he deserved

im still angry at Bottas ive said stewards are backwards, they nonsense penalties in Austria & yet dangerous incompetent driving, only get 5 place grid drop & starting 7th in spa is hardly a punishment for ruining 4 & very nearly 5 people race. shouldve been 10 at the very least. Karun Chandhok showed on the sky pad during the red flag. when everyone else braked & he didnt. how on a wet track that will be unknown slippery. does it not occur maybe brake abit earlier, thats not F1. that any wet road in any car. & not only that he destroyed another chance to see Hamilton & verstappen to go at it again
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
F1Brits_90 - completely agree with you about penalties.
  • Bottas knocks out 4 cars (including all of his team’s championship rivals) - 5 place grid penalty
  • The stewards can only extract 0.3l from Vettel’s car, and is thrown out of the race, losing 18 points.
  • Norris/Perez handed 5 second penalties in Austria for racing incidents
  • Russell handed a 3 place penalty in GB for 1st lap racing incident in sprint race.
What‘s going to get ridiculous is that Red Bull are going to start getting engine penalties before too long, because of the incidents caused by accidents.

I’d have thrown Bottas out of the race in Spa (that would have been congruent with the penalties that Hakkinen (Germany ‘94), Grosjean (Spa ‘12) and others received for start line shenanigans.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Bottas took.out 4 cars including himself

Stroll took out Leclerc and himself ...was that because of the concertina or he went it too hot..damaging Ricciardo's car as well..he is deemed innocent as well apparently

Thry could throw Bottas out of the race but two things for leniency he admitted it and it was a wet track
 

sobriety

Race Winner
I think also the punishment was light as it was only a very small mistake that had large knock on consequences, not like grosjean who forgot what the pedal on the left was for.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Oh, I forgot the ridiculous penalties in race...

Giovannazi - speeds in the pitlane - gets a stop-go penalty
Raikkonen - unsafe release, taking Mazepin out of the race, 10 second penalty, taken at the pitstop...

The punishments do not fit the crimes in F1 at the moment.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
  • Russell handed a 3 place penalty in GB for 1st lap racing incident in sprint race.
I’d have thrown Bottas out of the race in Spa (that would have been congruent with the penalties that Hakkinen (Germany ‘94), Grosjean (Spa ‘12) and others received for start line shenanigans.

it is very annoying the stewards who had been very good & brilliant to watch. to let the drivers race. until Austria when it gone pearshaped & back to the bad old days. actually you make a good point that Giovinazzi got a stronger penalty for speeding in the pit lane

how this is 3 place grid drop
promo450822161_5450563.jpg


this is 5 place grid drop, only meriting 2 more places. i just dont get
skysports-hungarian-gp-crashes_5464871.jpg
 
Last edited:

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
I think also the punishment was light as it was only a very small mistake that had large knock on consequences, not like grosjean who forgot what the pedal on the left was for.
in F1 most small mistakes have big consequences but bar Grosjean flying throw the air because he caught a tyre. i dont see much difference because they both got to braking zone. when everyone else braked. they both didnt
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
The stewards really need to start making the penalties related to the impact of the misdemeanor.
  • In football, if you take out a player with a goal-scoring opportunity (even if the contact is light), it's a straight red card
  • The analagous case in F1 would be a championship rival (or a rival of your team-mate) being taken out of the race.
In the last two races, Max has (arguably) lost 41 points to Hamilton, because he's been taken out by Mercedes drivers.

The penalties also don't seem to take into account that some teams will be more heavily impacted than others. If Mercedes get a 5 second penalty, that's going to have much less impact than if McLaren get a 5 second penalty - simply because the mid-field is so compact, and teams with big pace advantages can pull out that 5 second margin (and more) meaning that the overall penalty is small. If a mid-field car gets a 5 second penalty, it could be the difference between 5th and 11th. For a Mercedes, it's the difference between 2nd and 4th...
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
The punishment is for the initial crime not the resulting fracas, the crime is the initial contact, the resulting fracas is unfortunate, yes Verstappen has been taken out by two Mercedes drivers, the first was a result of him failing to ensure that he was clear of Hamilton's trajectory, to win you need to finish, Hamilton did, Verstappen didn't so tough when you fight to the death it may be you that dies. The second case was the result of a collision caused by Bottas hitting Norris, Bottas's car was then an uncontrolled lump of metal and carbon fibre, so after the initial collision the rest became a racing incident, hitting the brakes on a F1 car 0.1seconds late can cause a speed difference of over 30mph, the punishment was correct
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
The punishment is for the initial crime not the resulting fracas, the crime is the initial contact, the resulting fracas is unfortunate, yes Verstappen has been taken out by two Mercedes drivers, the first was a result of him failing to ensure that he was clear of Hamilton's trajectory, to win you need to finish, Hamilton did, Verstappen didn't so tough when you fight to the death it may be you that dies. The second case was the result of a collision caused by Bottas hitting Norris, Bottas's car was then an uncontrolled lump of metal and carbon fibre, so after the initial collision the rest became a racing incident, hitting the brakes on a F1 car 0.1seconds late can cause a speed difference of over 30mph, the punishment was correct
Unsurprisingly, I disagree completely. There has to be some consideration of the impact of the misdemeanor. Even the most innocuous fouls can lead to a player being sent off in football, if it prevents a goal-scoring opportunity. (And the red card comes with a 1 match ban)

If you take out 4 cars in one move, then you should expect to spend a weekend on the sidelines.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
The Artist..... I refer you to Jody Scheckter at the 1973 British GP
And Jody Scheckter himself admitted that had he done that today, he would have been banned for a number of races:
(Source: Autosport 70: How Scheckter instigated Silverstone's most famous F1 incident)

There are also major differences between F1 today and even F1 in the 90s...

In the 90s, if there was a big crash at the start, the red flag would normally come out, and drivers would get the chance to restart with their spare cars. If yesterday's race had happened 20 years ago, Verstappen, Norris, Leclerc, (plus Bottas and Stroll) would all have got the chance to restart from their original grid spots.
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
Lot of things were different in those days Scheckter's tyres were a mixture of different compounds, he actually didn't hit anyone though many hit him, I wonder if he would have been disqualified today, he lost it on his own, been a few accidents where the initial accident didn't hit anyone but the resulting fracas did but no disqualifications only grid penalties, the number of cars involved is not material, that's just luck.
 
Top Bottom