There’s no arguing about it Michael Masi cost Hamilton the title.
Grand Prix 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion
- Thread starter F1Brits_90
- Start date
There’s no arguing about it Michael Masi cost Hamilton the title.
Apparently there is
No, there isn’t.
Tuscan1969
Podium Finisher
It's really simple. Its not about who deserved it or who had a better teammate or who made the right call on tyres or most noise on the radio.
The simple fact is that rules that have been implemented many many times before with singular consistency were, in the most important most watched F1 race ever, not just interpreted differently but were completely ignored in order supposedly to "let them race" . What the hell Masi though they had been doing all afternoon before that point is anyones guess.
Even if you think Masi was right to let the SC come in so quickly it is inexcusable that he did not let all the lapped cars past as this specifically showed his decision was only about LH versus MV and all other drivers were not treated in the same way.
Thats the critical point. If masi does have the power to change an interpretation it must at least be applied to all of the contestants in that race who are affected by it. You cannot allow a rule to implemented only for some of the lapped drivers as then it is no longer a equal contest but its the Race Director picking favourites.
By doing so Masi was making a new rule to favour one driver over all the others. That is called cheating.
The simple fact is that rules that have been implemented many many times before with singular consistency were, in the most important most watched F1 race ever, not just interpreted differently but were completely ignored in order supposedly to "let them race" . What the hell Masi though they had been doing all afternoon before that point is anyones guess.
Even if you think Masi was right to let the SC come in so quickly it is inexcusable that he did not let all the lapped cars past as this specifically showed his decision was only about LH versus MV and all other drivers were not treated in the same way.
Thats the critical point. If masi does have the power to change an interpretation it must at least be applied to all of the contestants in that race who are affected by it. You cannot allow a rule to implemented only for some of the lapped drivers as then it is no longer a equal contest but its the Race Director picking favourites.
By doing so Masi was making a new rule to favour one driver over all the others. That is called cheating.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
you cant stick it fully on 1 person 100%. there are many reasons leading up to it. that would made masi terrible decisions less meaningful,Apparently there is
mercedes had to pit because didnt because the strategists dont have an aggressive bone in their body. its why spain was so shocking because it was so out of character. even if you let Riccardo Schumacher & ???? through you get exactly the same lap. verstappen wins the title. because Hamilton may have track position but he had no defence. yes he might be 2nd but he's on fresh tyres with the slipstream & max is on 20 lap old tyres
if Bottas had actually bothered to turn up so was some help, instead qualifying in 6th 6 tenths of Hamilton & a full second off verstappen. then wimping out around the outside of sainz falling back to 8th. then like Russia all over again couldnt overtake if his life depended on it. stuck behind alpha tauri a car that finished 6th in constructors. if he was in striking distances even 20 seconds behind Red bull forced have to 1 stop. then its both on ancient tyres & Hamilton can finish the job. but Hamilton was left playing doubles tennis on his own
Il_leone
World Champion
My point exactly about the cars chasing Sainz down what if it was a Mclaren still fighting for 3rd in the constructors and were denied that chance. By coincidence 4th and 5th were Gasly and Tsunoda so that team wont kick a fuss about being screwed as well
What Masi did was a screwjob on Hamilton and Mercedes
All the wailing and gnashing isn't going to make any difference.
Once Verstappen has been officially announced as the WDC at the annual ceremony (whenever that is), there's no going back.
Even if the hearing is held before then, the FIA are never going to change the result.
It's all over.
Just another ****ed up, corrupt F1 season which will be talked about ad infinitum.
Verstappen will be as pissed as Mercedes because if Masi had followed the rules there's a good chance that he would have still won.
As it is, his (first) WDC will forever be tainted and considered to be illegitimate by a considerable number of people.
Once Verstappen has been officially announced as the WDC at the annual ceremony (whenever that is), there's no going back.
Even if the hearing is held before then, the FIA are never going to change the result.
It's all over.
Just another ****ed up, corrupt F1 season which will be talked about ad infinitum.
Verstappen will be as pissed as Mercedes because if Masi had followed the rules there's a good chance that he would have still won.
As it is, his (first) WDC will forever be tainted and considered to be illegitimate by a considerable number of people.
Il_leone
World Champion
Very much doubt the FIA will overturn the result but they might get rid of Masi at least
As for Verstappen that depends really how Red Bull conduct themselves someone needs to smash a guitar over Horner's head
I don’t know have others are feeling but I think overall sentiment after a few days, mine included, is that Mercedes should take this as high as they can. Twitter is going mental including a huge Ferrari fan thread (yes Bill Boddy, non Hamilton fans think it stinks).
I think the silence of the teams and drivers post paddock interviews is very telling. There is also a lot of radio messages now being made public that shows how disgruntled lower down and impacted drivers were. Wouldn’t surprise me if there will be a multi team appeal or at least support.
I don’t care what happens as long as guilt is proven/admitted and there is accountability for this shit show.
I think the silence of the teams and drivers post paddock interviews is very telling. There is also a lot of radio messages now being made public that shows how disgruntled lower down and impacted drivers were. Wouldn’t surprise me if there will be a multi team appeal or at least support.
I don’t care what happens as long as guilt is proven/admitted and there is accountability for this shit show.
The best Mercedes will get is an admission that the events of last Sunday unfairly impacted their WDC challenge, and benefited Red Bull's. The cock up didn't decide the championship – the Abu Dhabi GP wasn't a one-off boxing match to decide the winner. It may appear like that with both drivers level going into the final race, with the 'Duel in the Desert' build-up, but its not how it was.
There was a 14 point swing between Mercedes and Red Bull due to the FIA rules / race director cock-up, if you assume the 1-2 would have been the other way around. Max and Lewis' combined WDC points across the season add up to 783. This 14 point swing therefore accounts for less than 2% of their combined season's tally. I'm not saying that isn't significant, but you can't look at that one cock-up in isolation.
As has been rightly mentioned on this thread there have been numerous other contentious / unfair incidents / cock-ups – call them what you will, that add up to many more points than this. To look at one incident and make that the title deciding issue is to ignore all the others.
I think there will be accountability and likely rule changes following this incident, but unless Mercedes can convince anyone that they were unfairly treated across the season, systematically, then they'll have to just live with it and fight another day.
There was a 14 point swing between Mercedes and Red Bull due to the FIA rules / race director cock-up, if you assume the 1-2 would have been the other way around. Max and Lewis' combined WDC points across the season add up to 783. This 14 point swing therefore accounts for less than 2% of their combined season's tally. I'm not saying that isn't significant, but you can't look at that one cock-up in isolation.
As has been rightly mentioned on this thread there have been numerous other contentious / unfair incidents / cock-ups – call them what you will, that add up to many more points than this. To look at one incident and make that the title deciding issue is to ignore all the others.
I think there will be accountability and likely rule changes following this incident, but unless Mercedes can convince anyone that they were unfairly treated across the season, systematically, then they'll have to just live with it and fight another day.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
Equally, if you listen to Fernando Alonso's radio, he was "not surprised" when initially there were going to be cars left between Hamilton and Verstappen for the restart...
Alpine team radio: "Verstappen is two places behind you..."
Alonso "... Hahahaha - Yes I understand... and he should be two places ahead of me"
Apparently there is
You can tell it's Panto season.
The first person who posts "He's behind you" gets a week's ban.
I have and that’s a different situation to what then happened and what I was referring to.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
To be honest, no-one is going to appeal (the only team that has any right to appeal would be Mercedes, as they submitted their intention to appeal), so no other team can be involved. Mercedes also won't appeal, because in the cold light of day, it appears as sour grapes. (I believe Hamilton asked the team not to appeal as well).
There should be quiet work behind the scenes, which may (or may not) lead to Masi finding another job, but frankly, all the wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't going to achieve anything.
Over the course of the season, Max was the faster driver. (Lewis was probably the better driver). Over the course of the season, the Mercedes was the faster car, so it seems appropriate that Max wins the drivers title, Mercedes wins the constructors championship.
There should be quiet work behind the scenes, which may (or may not) lead to Masi finding another job, but frankly, all the wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't going to achieve anything.
Over the course of the season, Max was the faster driver. (Lewis was probably the better driver). Over the course of the season, the Mercedes was the faster car, so it seems appropriate that Max wins the drivers title, Mercedes wins the constructors championship.
Considering the level Lewis and Mercedes operate and the way they were suddenly able to turn up the knob to eleven after the COTAS upset, it was pretty clear his season would be ending with a bang. Considering both Lewis and Schumacher won their first driver titles in the last race in controversial circumstances and another team got the constructors title, I would say Max is in pretty elite company. I’m really looking forward to next season.
Thursday night in Paris, I believe.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
You can tell it's Panto season.
The first person who posts "He's behind you" gets a week's ban.
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