Grand Prix 2013 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

So we leave the sunny shores of Great Britain behind and after a short cross channel hop and a chance to pick up some low tax cigarettes and alcohol we're off to the Rhineland in Germany and to the Nurburgring. If you fancy popping over, you could use the time to look around the place and have it valued, as it is currently up for sale.

Coming only a week after the British GP, the tyre debacle will still be very fresh in the minds of all who saw or took part in the race. It is extremely unlikely that any significant changes to the tyre construction will have taken place prior to the start of the race so all eyes will be on P1 to see if the lipped curbs of the, soon to be famous, turn 4 at Silverstone were responsible or was there a deeper issue with this year’s brand of boot?

For two of the home drivers at this race there will be a new focus on succeeding. For Vettel it was the rarest of things, a mechanical failure of a Red Bull, that saw his closest championship rivals close down his points total and put more pressure on. For Rosberg it was his second win of the season at Silverstone and with a clearly improving Merc, a chance perhaps to continue the momentum and mount a title challenge.

All of the top 4 teams go into the next round knowing that they have capable cars that can put them in the mix, so driver skill is becoming ever more important. We've seen that Mercedes can now maintain the pace of qualification in race trim but we've also seen that Red Bull and Ferrari have lost none of their speed while Lotus continue to bring home the points with Kimi.

Further back down the field McLaren have already fallen behind Force India in terms of race pace and are almost in danger of being swallowed up by the improving pace of the two Rosso cars as their drivers have found the inspiration to improve on their performances thanks to a departing Webber.

Williams are still struggling for points but as yet there is no danger of the "young" teams, as they are now being called on TV catching them up. As for Caterham and Marussia, well, they'll be at the track.

So, will the Mercs be on top at their second home GP or will the challenge come from one of the others??

 

[Incubus]

Nope. The fact he almost always starts behind Vettel on the grid has nothing to do with luck to begin with. Being involved in more incidents during races is also much more likely when you don't start from pole, and even more likely when you find yourself somewhere around eighth place after a poor start. Having your strategy complicated as a result is not down to luck nor is the subsequent need of having to take more risks in an effort to make up for it.... and having your team reserve their maximum effort and concentration on your team-mate rather than yourself is a logical consequence of all the above.

 

[Fenderman]

It depends on whether one uses a narrow definition of luck, as in pure chance, or a wider concept as in fortune in terms of a holistic appraisal of circumstances.

It is often said that one makes one's own luck but that is only true when one has total control of one's situation. In a team sport like F1 all of the individuals in the team have to combine as one to make their luck and anyone in connection with the team such as a tyre supplier, will also contribute to their fortunes. Then of course once in the fray of competition everything else that is going on, and therefore the fortunes of others, adds to the mix.

All anyone can do is to maximise their own "luck" and their contribution to their team's "luck" by doing the best job they can. Red Bull have found their "magic bullet" right now and, in a way, they are indeed the lucky chaps since individually and collectively they have made their own luck, on Seb's side of the garage, anyway ...

 

[Jen]

..... and having your team reserve their maximum effort and concentration on your team-mate rather than yourself is a logical consequence of all the above.

Which denies efficiency.

WCC is reliant on 2 relatively successful drivers, so maximum effort for both drivers to attain that goal.

 

[Incubus]

precisely, which is why they are on course to grab their fourth consecutive constructor's title.

 

[Jen]

What? Do you do circular thinking and then forget your opening premise?

 

[Incubus]

Reading through those past few comments circular answering is coming mostly from your good self Jen! My only premise was that Red Bull's successes owe nothing to luck and everything to their quality as a team, and that Webber's "mishaps" can't be put down to bad luck. Like any other team Red Bull do what's best for them and fact is, right now Vettel is the man who can be relied on to do the job.
You are the one who brought on the subject of the need for both drivers to perform to try and get that WCC. Not quite sure where I suggested otherwise but still answered your post regardless, even though your remark that relying primarly on Vettel "denied efficiency" clearly doesn't tally up with the reality of their undisputed dominance of that championship. I'm sure Red Bull would like Webber to qualify and start races a bit better....

In fact I'm still not quite sure what your point is, other than the implication that Red Bull are being deliberately sloppy when it comes to Webber's pitstops or strategies?....

 

[Incubus]

Anyway maybe this debate would be more at home in the Red Bull thread?....

 

[Jen]

I'm sure you're right and I had scripted a very complex answer to your assertion that I was thinking in a circular fashion, then I thought 'sod it', so a relatively terse reply.

Your original premise was that you didn't believe in "driver luck" and RBR's supremacy was down to the Vettel factor, the team's efficiency and later, Webber's inadequacy.

Might I suggest that to win the WCC, the team has to back both drivers and whatever you think of Webber, then 'the team' would not be in the position they are without Mark's input.

If it had just been Vettel and RBR (without Webber), then the results would have been different.

So, is it down to 'driver luck' or 'team inefficiency'?

 

[Incubus]

Like I said in my opening line "insofar as you consider F1 as a team sport" ... then the answer to your last query as to be "team inefficiency". On that particular incident. Which doesn't detract from the fact they have still been incredibly efficient overall.

At the risk of coming on all pedantic and that the http://cliptheapex.com/threads/red-bull-racing.3373/page-29 Red Bull thread would a better place for that discussion.