Grand Prix 2012 Malaysian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Someone other than Vettel is leading the Championship!

It may be strange to see, but for the first time since Abu Dhabi 2010 someone other than Sebastian Vettel is top of the Championship after Jenson Button won the Australian Grand Prix in commanding fashion with Vettel second and a folorn Hamilton falling foul of a safety car which allowed the German through.

Going into Malaysia it seems apparent that Mclaren have the strongest car as they were far and away the strongest team in Australia and it was only after having to fuel save for 90% of the race that let Red Bull get within distance, when Button and Hamilton were at full throttle for the first 8 laps, they pulled away at over a second a lap which provided a comfortable cushion even though it was wiped out by a safety car due to Vitaly Petrov breaking down on the main straight.

But the Australian Grand Prix raised more questions than it did provide answers, the only thing that we learned was that the not quite so new teams are still as bad as they were last season and Mclaren and Red Bull are the two fastest teams. Ferrari had a shocking qualifying but Fernando Alonso managed to drag it kicking and screaming into 5th place which suggests a better race pace compared to qualifying pace while beleaguered Felipe Massa trundled around in midfield like he was on a Sunday drive in the Australian parks.

lotus are the only team where a question mark still remains about the general competitiveness. Roman Grosjean qualified a remarkable third but was taken out early on by Maldando while returning champion Kimi Raikkonnen failed to get out of first qualifying but managed to fight through the field to finish a very strong seventh which suggests that they do have a strong car but need to ally qualifying with race pace if they are to take the fight to the top teams.

In 2011 Malaysia was a race full of pit stops due to the high degradation of the Pirelli tyres, and while the tyres this year are more conservative and stable, high degradation is still to be expecting and several pit stops are going to be the norm with an unpredictable weekend to come. The only thing to expect is the likelihood of a massive shower at some point during the weekend which would no doubt spice things up.

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/sepang-international-circuit/

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

One more point on the Vettel / Karthikeyan incident:
Someone posted somewhere that Grosjean was ridiculous to blame Schumacher for their coming together, as if he was saying "Schumacher hit me from in front". Are the two incidents not very similar? One driver passes another, the overtaking driver gets clipped by the other as he goes past (one ends in a spin, the other a puncture). Most people seem to be blaming Grosjean for the earlier one, so why did he not also get a penalty?

 

[GeoffP]

Schumacher was bound to struggle in this race - did you see the cheery wink he gave the camera before the race? Far too friendly;

Karthikeyan - what a dolt, admitted to having made an error even before being found guilty;

Button - Nice guy, deserves to be at the back;

Webber - Come on where's the "I'm only a No. 2 Driver" comment gone... you'll never win like that!


Where are the prima donnas, please get them to line up in a disorderly queue for the podium, handbags at the ready!

Bring on the Hamilton - not talking coz' I lost, Alonso - THIS CHANGES NOTHING and Vettel - They're all idiots.

If Perez wants to be taken seriously he's going to have to sort out this happy grin at only being second with all his competitors still breathing.

There, that's the order we really want in F1

 

[Slyboogy]

The statistics might be skewed a bit due to the ban on refuelling, a lot of cars that weren't the fastest would get pole by having less fuel, so the statistic will help those in that list apart from Vettel, since he got the faster car in the non-refuelling era.

But otherwise...yeah

 

[ExtremeNinja]

The statistics might be skewed a bit due to the ban on refuelling, a lot of cars that weren't the fastest would get pole by having less fuel, so drivers so the statistic will help those in that list apart from Vettel, since he got the faster car in the non-refuelling era.Schumacher.

But otherwise...yeah

I just had a wave of nostalgia for refuelling.

 

[Slyboogy]

One more point on the Vettel / Karthikeyan incident:
Someone posted somewhere that Grosjean was ridiculous to blame Schumacher for their coming together, as if he was saying "Schumacher hit me from in front". Are the two incidents not very similar? One driver passes another, the overtaking driver gets clipped by the other as he goes past (one ends in a spin, the other a puncture). Most people seem to be blaming Grosjean for the earlier one, so why did he not also get a penalty?

Yes that was me, and I think Khartikeyan is more to blame than Vettel in that incident, watch the video that FB put up, as it shows Khartikeyan swerve into Vettel.

As for the Schumacher incident it's a little different, unlike Vettel who didn't use all of the track Schumacer did, I don't expect Schumacher to disapppear, I can see the arguments for the Vettel-Khartikeyan incident, but I think it was Khartikeyans fault, as do the stewards and Khartikeyan.

And I expect Khartikeyan to be aware of the cars near, I have been critical of him for this ever since he raced for HRT, he took the blame himself and said he tried to "avoid the marbles".

As for Vettel's comments, that's another matter, they were disrespectful.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

and said he tried to "avoid he marbles".

It's she marbles you want to watch out for.

 

[Il_leone]

If I’m honest I think I the level of driver today is no different from 10, 20 or more years ago… they’ve all been bloody great!
The only difference is when Schumacher was in his prime he was so good, for so long, dominated the stats for so long it made the rest of the field look lesser. Id say its because we had an unusual talent in Schumacher and we don’t have one now, rather than we have half a dozen or more Schumachers on the grid today. Even Schumacher today isn’t the Schumacher in his prime.

It does help when your team and the tyre suppliers do everything to favour you significantly to achieve those stats plus one or two dubious Fia stewarding decisions

Clark in his prime was even better than Schumacher but suffered more mechanical failures in the 1960's despite his sheer speed

 

[Il_leone]

One more point on the Vettel / Karthikeyan incident:
Someone posted somewhere that Grosjean was ridiculous to blame Schumacher for their coming together, as if he was saying "Schumacher hit me from in front". Are the two incidents not very similar? One driver passes another, the overtaking driver gets clipped by the other as he goes past (one ends in a spin, the other a puncture). Most people seem to be blaming Grosjean for the earlier one, so why did he not also get a penalty?

Was not it within the first few laps that the stewards feel they are obliged to be more lenient according to Charlie Whiting

Well Grosjean was out of the race already so you can;t really punish him other than give him a grid drop for the next race or a ban

Schumacher was nowhere near the front so it difficult to justify how much he lost out given the restart meant everyone was bunched up again

I do agree though Grosjean is not helping himself with two accidents

 

[GermanF1]

One more point on the Vettel / Karthikeyan incident:
Someone posted somewhere that Grosjean was ridiculous to blame Schumacher for their coming together, as if he was saying "Schumacher hit me from in front". Are the two incidents not very similar? One driver passes another, the overtaking driver gets clipped by the other as he goes past (one ends in a spin, the other a puncture). Most people seem to be blaming Grosjean for the earlier one, so why did he not also get a penalty?

I don't thnik these incidents can be compared as Vettel had already passed Karthikeyan and Grosjean was nowhere near passed Schumacher.
So I think the Vettel/Karthikeyan crash was more or less a 50/50 one, because Vettel could have left maybe a little more room and Karthikeyan obviously didn't need to turn in (but maybe he had to because of his whatever problem).
And I can't see how anybody would blame Schumacher for the Grosjean crash. Grosjean simply ran into him, didn't he?

 

[Wombcat]

Those comparing him to Schumacher should know that Michael actually won more races not on pole, than from pole (54.9%).

On how many of those races he qualified as 2nd with his teammate on pole? (which is given the nr.1 status he had at Ferrari was esentially the same as being on pole)

 

[ExtremeNinja]

On how many of those races he qualified as 2nd with his teammate on pole? (which is given the nr.1 status he had at Ferrari was esentially the same as being on pole)

Go on, how many?

 

[Wombcat]

That was my question.

 

[Jos the Boss]

On how many of those races he qualified as 2nd with his teammate on pole? (which is given the nr.1 status he had at Ferrari was esentially the same as being on pole)

18!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

18!

So if wombat consider's those as poles then, at least for entertainment, we should adjust percentage wins from pole.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Yes that was me, and I think Khartikeyan is more to blame than Vettel in that incident, watch the video that FB put up, as it shows Khartikeyan swerve into Vettel.

As for the Schumacher incident it's a little different, unlike Vettel who didn't use all of the track Schumacer did, I don't expect Schumacher to disapppear, I can see the arguments for the Vettel-Khartikeyan incident, but I think it was Khartikeyans fault, as do the stewards and Khartikeyan.

As for Vettel's comments, that's another matter, they were disrespectful.

I agree, looking back at the video, that Karthikeyan did move across a little, so I guess the penalty was fair. But Grosjean also clipped Schumacher from behind as the German went past (albeit on the outside rather than Vettel's move on the inside), so why wouldn't Grosjean also be deemed to have been at fault? Presumably the stewards must have seen that one as 50/50.

I agree about Vettel's comments, quite out of order.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

And I can't see how anybody would blame Schumacher for the Grosjean crash. Grosjean simply ran into him, didn't he?

That's my point! If Grosjean 'ran into' Schumacher, causing him to lose several places, does he not deserve to be penalised just as much as Karthikeyan?

 

[Vortex]

It does help when your team and the tyre suppliers do everything to favour you significantly to achieve those stats plus one or two dubious Fia stewarding decisions

Clark in his prime was even better than Schumacher but suffered more mechanical failures in the 1960's despite his sheer speed

You don’t know this, I don’t know this and nobody will ever know this. Its just your opinion. You cant fairly compare any F1 driver from the 60’s to a modern one, the cars, the sport have changed just too much since then.

Btw, how old are you? Did you witness Clarks career? I didn’t. In fact did you actually witness all of Schumacher’s career or are you basing your opinions on things you’ve heard?

 

[johnnoble1990]

Out of interest, why is no one talking about the fact Jenson Button wasn't penalised for crashing into Karthikeyan. Easily the worst, most clear cut incident of them all? I'm not a fan of penalties, but we need some consistency at least.

 

[Vortex]

Maybe because it didn’t harm his race, only his own.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Out of interest, why is no one talking about the fact Jenson Button wasn't penalised for crashing into Karthikeyan. Easily the worst incident of them all.

Good point. Have we all been indoctrinated with a mentality that he can do no wrong? How many times did we see similar incidents penalised last year? I can think of many.