Grand Prix 2012 Malaysian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Someone other than Vettel is leading the Championship!

It may be strange to see, but for the first time since Abu Dhabi 2010 someone other than Sebastian Vettel is top of the Championship after Jenson Button won the Australian Grand Prix in commanding fashion with Vettel second and a folorn Hamilton falling foul of a safety car which allowed the German through.

Going into Malaysia it seems apparent that Mclaren have the strongest car as they were far and away the strongest team in Australia and it was only after having to fuel save for 90% of the race that let Red Bull get within distance, when Button and Hamilton were at full throttle for the first 8 laps, they pulled away at over a second a lap which provided a comfortable cushion even though it was wiped out by a safety car due to Vitaly Petrov breaking down on the main straight.

But the Australian Grand Prix raised more questions than it did provide answers, the only thing that we learned was that the not quite so new teams are still as bad as they were last season and Mclaren and Red Bull are the two fastest teams. Ferrari had a shocking qualifying but Fernando Alonso managed to drag it kicking and screaming into 5th place which suggests a better race pace compared to qualifying pace while beleaguered Felipe Massa trundled around in midfield like he was on a Sunday drive in the Australian parks.

lotus are the only team where a question mark still remains about the general competitiveness. Roman Grosjean qualified a remarkable third but was taken out early on by Maldando while returning champion Kimi Raikkonnen failed to get out of first qualifying but managed to fight through the field to finish a very strong seventh which suggests that they do have a strong car but need to ally qualifying with race pace if they are to take the fight to the top teams.

In 2011 Malaysia was a race full of pit stops due to the high degradation of the Pirelli tyres, and while the tyres this year are more conservative and stable, high degradation is still to be expecting and several pit stops are going to be the norm with an unpredictable weekend to come. The only thing to expect is the likelihood of a massive shower at some point during the weekend which would no doubt spice things up.

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/sepang-international-circuit/

 

[tooncheese]

Out of interest, why is no one talking about the fact Jenson Button wasn't penalised for crashing into Karthikeyan. Easily the worst, most clear cut incident of them all? I'm not a fan of penalties, but we need some consistency at least.

Karthikeyan was fine, and Button's race was ruined. No need for a punishment.

 

[Jos the Boss]

He ruined Narain's race actually, he would have been well in the points

 

[johnnoble1990]

Maybe because it didn’t harm his race, only his own.

That's not how the rules work though? Maybe some of the damage caused Karthikeyan to go off before he hit Vettel (or Vettel hit him). How do the stewards know Karthikeyan wasn't the class of the field that day and was taking it easy, then got clipped and he had to run 5 seconds slower than the field. FIA don't make a habit of common sense decisions.

 

[Vortex]

He ruined Narain's race actually, he would have been well in the points

I don't get you?

 

[johnnoble1990]

I don't get you?

I got it.

 

[The Artist.....]

That's not how the rules work though?

Maybe not in writing, but in principle, that's what happens - if you cause another driver to be disadvantaged through careless driving, then you get a penalty. If you are the only person that is hurt, then 9 times out of 10, you have already served your penalty.

Karthikeyan got away without any damage in the Button case, and both he and Vettel were damaged in the Vettel case!

 

[Clinton]

One more point on the Vettel / Karthikeyan incident:
Someone posted somewhere that Grosjean was ridiculous to blame Schumacher for their coming together, as if he was saying "Schumacher hit me from in front". Are the two incidents not very similar? One driver passes another, the overtaking driver gets clipped by the other as he goes past (one ends in a spin, the other a puncture). Most people seem to be blaming Grosjean for the earlier one, so why did he not also get a penalty?

It seems to me as though the authorities have become more lenient this year, having reconsidered the oppressive atmosphere created by an official investigation of every minor racing incident and too-frequent drive through penalties.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

I thought the Button-Karthikeyan incident was similar to the Hamilton-Massa clash in Singapore last year. From this can we deduce that you only recieve a penalty for hindering another driver's race and not for the actual accident (causing an avoidable incident)?

 

[Brogan]

Out of interest, why is no one talking about the fact Jenson Button wasn't penalised for crashing into Karthikeyan.

I asked the question 10 or so pages back.

If NK had received a puncture then I expect JB would have received a penalty.

Possibly.

 

[Vortex]

Yeah, and I suspect the reason Grosjean didn’t get a penalty is because he was out of the race on lap 3 anyway.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Yeah, and I suspect the reason Grosjean didn’t get a penalty is because he was out of the race on lap 3 anyway.

That should be irrelevant. If Grosjean was guilty of causing the incident, then it follows that he was guilty of ruining Schumacher's race and so ought to have been penalised with a five or ten place grid drop for the next race.
I suspect that if his surname had started with an 'H', he would have been.

 

[Vortex]

Or..
Maybe it was because Mercedes or Schumacher didn’t complain where as Vettel and Redbull were quite miffed and spat the dummy out. lol

 

[GermanF1]

That's my point! If Grosjean 'ran into' Schumacher, causing him to lose several places, does he not deserve to be penalised just as much as Karthikeyan?

Maybe because it happened just after the start, and everything is pretty much confused then. Anyway it has to be said that I wouldn't demand neither Karthikeyan nor Grosjean to be penalized, but by recent standards it would not have been a big surprise. Penalties should just be awarded if a driver deliberately crashes into/blocks/ someone or somehow else ruins another driver's race.

He ruined Narain's race actually, he would have been well in the points

Think he could easily have won.

It seems to me as though the authorities have become more lenient this year, having reconsidered the oppressive atmosphere created by an official investigation of every minor racing incident and too-frequent drive through penalties.

I really hope you are right

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Just seen this!

http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/7627300/The-Ice-cream-man-giveth

 

[Speshal]

 

[Slyboogy]

That's my point! If Grosjean 'ran into' Schumacher, causing him to lose several places, does he not deserve to be penalised just as much as Karthikeyan?

Grosjean retired that's why, plus it takes them a while to investigate an incident or show up the investigation thing, by that time he was out of the race. You might ask why didn't he get a penalty for the next race, for some reason it doesn't happen half of the time I don't know why.

What was Khartikeyans penalty? A time penalty or a grid drop?

 

[FB]

20 seconds added to his race time which made him last.

 

[johnnoble1990]

20 seconds added to his race time which made him last.

I have to admit, I think the 20 second penalty is a stupid way to punish drivers as it punishes a driver relative to how close the race is, rather than the severity of the incident. At Monaco 2011, a 20 second penalty was given to Lewis and it didn't see him lose a single place, while if the same penalty had been given to Webber at Monaco 2010, it would've cost him 25 points, due to the safety car.

I think we need a penalty system away from the races themselves, perhaps with suspensions or point deductions if a driver passes a threshold.

 

[FB]

The 20 seconds is to simulate the effect of a drive through penalty. Not sure how else they could it unless they gave him a grid drop at the next race? Not much of a punishment for HRT though...

 

[johnnoble1990]

The 20 seconds is to simulate the effect of a drive through penalty. Not sure how else they could it unless they gave him a grid drop at the next race? Not much of a punishment for HRT though...

Well the same goes for drive through penalties, but at least in that instance the driver has a chance to repair the damage in the race.

I've said it before, but in most incidences, the penalty is the incident itself. No driver is going around intentionally crashing into another driver. Why can't stewards accept that 70-80% of incidences are near-enough blameless.