Grand Prix 2012 Malaysian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Someone other than Vettel is leading the Championship!

It may be strange to see, but for the first time since Abu Dhabi 2010 someone other than Sebastian Vettel is top of the Championship after Jenson Button won the Australian Grand Prix in commanding fashion with Vettel second and a folorn Hamilton falling foul of a safety car which allowed the German through.

Going into Malaysia it seems apparent that Mclaren have the strongest car as they were far and away the strongest team in Australia and it was only after having to fuel save for 90% of the race that let Red Bull get within distance, when Button and Hamilton were at full throttle for the first 8 laps, they pulled away at over a second a lap which provided a comfortable cushion even though it was wiped out by a safety car due to Vitaly Petrov breaking down on the main straight.

But the Australian Grand Prix raised more questions than it did provide answers, the only thing that we learned was that the not quite so new teams are still as bad as they were last season and Mclaren and Red Bull are the two fastest teams. Ferrari had a shocking qualifying but Fernando Alonso managed to drag it kicking and screaming into 5th place which suggests a better race pace compared to qualifying pace while beleaguered Felipe Massa trundled around in midfield like he was on a Sunday drive in the Australian parks.

lotus are the only team where a question mark still remains about the general competitiveness. Roman Grosjean qualified a remarkable third but was taken out early on by Maldando while returning champion Kimi Raikkonnen failed to get out of first qualifying but managed to fight through the field to finish a very strong seventh which suggests that they do have a strong car but need to ally qualifying with race pace if they are to take the fight to the top teams.

In 2011 Malaysia was a race full of pit stops due to the high degradation of the Pirelli tyres, and while the tyres this year are more conservative and stable, high degradation is still to be expecting and several pit stops are going to be the norm with an unpredictable weekend to come. The only thing to expect is the likelihood of a massive shower at some point during the weekend which would no doubt spice things up.

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/sepang-international-circuit/

 

[johnnoble1990]

He goes crazy to say the least (0:17 onwards). I think we are looking too much at slow motion replays. You can't really gage the decision making unless you're travelling at 1xx mph. It was clearly a mistake from Karthikeyan, but it was a result of a number of factors. Suck it up and get on with it.

 

[johnnoble1990]

Anyway, it was a decent race this morning. I think today showed just how unpredictable the results can be when the field are so closely matched in time.

 

[Slyboogy]

You know what I found retarded?

Grosjean blaming Schumacher for the collision...

Yes Romain, you were hit by the car in front of you :-/. Try that one on the road and see what your insurance company has to say.

 

[Abnash24]

Winners of the Race:
Alonso-for being the winner of the race
Perez-brilliant second place, faster than Mclaren and red bull for most of the race
Senna-smashed his way through to get 6th
Losers of the Race:
Vettel-Puncture in a 50/50 incident 8 laps from the end
Button-struggled at finished 13th after starting 2nd
Massa-his soon to be replacement gets 2nd and he with more experience gets 15th
Karthikeyan-2 incidents with 2 world champions
Maldonado-2 laps from the end
Rosberg-mercedes qualifying pace=awesome, race pace=not so much
Grosjean-started well before hitting schumacher
Hamilton-starts from pole and once again cant convert it into a win

 

[Quintessentially]

He goes crazy to say the least (0:17 onwards). I think we are looking too much at slow motion replays. You can't really gage the decision making unless you're travelling at 1xx mph. It was clearly a mistake from Karthikeyan, but it was a result of a number of factors. Suck it up and get on with it.

I'm not sure it was a clear mistake from Karthikeyan, who is getting too much stick at the moment. He had just lost control coming out of the corner and the car appeared to be dancing around a lot when Vettel passed him. The onus was on Vettle to pass cleanly and he simply went too close to a car that was already unstable, going by the footage.

 

[Brogan]

Hamilton-starts from pole and once again cant convert it into a win

I've seen several people post this and I really don't think he can be blamed, bearing in mind the conditions, his pit stop delay and the decision by his team to keep him out longer than everyone else on old rubber.

He lost 10 seconds on one lap due to being on old tyres too long, although even then he would have been highly unlikely to be able to catch and pass Pérez and Alonso as their cars were the quickest in the conditions.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I've seen several people post this and I really don't think he can be blamed, bearing in mind the conditions, his pit stop delay and the decision by his team to keep him out longer than everyone else on old rubber.

I tend to agree with you, but how much of the decision to keep him out too long was his own doing? After all, being the lead Mclaren driver he had first call on pit stop strategy, so presumably he could have requested to come in earlier on both stops. In fact, I was really hoping that he would come in straight away at the safety car restart, instead it was Button who came in. And what happened? Button jumped him. Also, the delay on his first stop was contributed to by his overshooting the pit box.

 

[Brogan]

Interesting comment on Sky regarding the possibility of using a double shuffle pit stop to delay other drivers.

First and foremost, of course, Hamilton's lead of the race was lost at his first stop when a combination of misjudged entrance and delayed exit - on account of Ferrari pitting both their drivers simultaneously - meant Alonso returned to the track ahead of both McLarens. One lap later, Perez pitted and returned in front of the McLaren - in effect, and somewhat ironically, benefiting from Massa's roadblock to get the jump on the unfortunate Hamilton.

On a not entirely incidental note, these newly-fashionable simultaneous pit-stops must surely be subject of some chatter in the Shanghai paddock in two weeks' time because it seems a minor absurdity that a car can be held up by another team deliberately parking one of their cars; indeed, it's not beyond question that simultaneous, rolling pit-stops will have to be banned in order to protect the integrity of the 'unsafe release' injunction. It's a complicated matter but it's also simple to see it as ripe for manipulation.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/22058/7627178/Conclusions-from-the-Malaysian-GP

It's probably worthy of a new thread but I couldn't be bothered

 

[Brogan]

I tend to agree with you, but how much of the decision to keep him out too long was his own doing?

No idea.
The radio transcripts are here: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/jenson-button-vs-lewis-hamilton.4734/page-14#post-117777

 

[Dizzi]

I only get to watch the highlights which does spoil the flow of the race somewhat (my old man was well confused when it was red flagged & then 'immediately' started again until I explained there had been a 50 minutes stop the beeb cut out).
However, I enjoyed the race immensely.
Alonso & Perez were outstanding in cars that really shouldn't have been in that position & the reactions from the pit walls at the end highlight the emotions that surge through this sport.
Massa was hopless, not much else you can say.
McLaren, oh dear. Bit of a wet squib for them. My gut feeling is they would rather have Jenson in front. To an outsider like me it looked like they were optimising Jenson's strategy to jump Lewis via the pit stops (I don't think the delays in the pit stops themselves were deliberate just the timing of laps the respective drivers were brought in).
Mercedes were distinctly average for the race which was disappointing.
Red Bull are being a bit harsh on Karthikeyan, Seb hasn't been the cleanest of drivers in his time & I don't think he knows how diffcult it must be to drive that HRT. I suspect just keeping it on the track is an achievement. After what happened with Jenson he should've treated the HRT like a kicking horse & steered well clear of him on his pass. For me it was an unfortunate racing incident.
I don't like the RB attitude, it's very arrogant & Vettel should chose his words and gestures more carefully.
Well before I write an entire essay(!) the overtaking was fab (JB on FM especially), I surprised myself by being really happy for Alonso & loved the radio messages after the flag...so much better than a crazy frog.
Thumbs up for Ben Edwards & DC keeping track of a hectic race & to Gary Anderson who showed you dodn't need fancy gadgets to explain aerodynamics...just a highlighter

 

[johnnoble1990]

Interesting comment on Sky regarding the possibility of using a double shuffle pit stop to delay other drivers.

First and foremost, of course, Hamilton's lead of the race was lost at his first stop when a combination of misjudged entrance and delayed exit - on account of Ferrari pitting both their drivers simultaneously - meant Alonso returned to the track ahead of both McLarens. One lap later, Perez pitted and returned in front of the McLaren - in effect, and somewhat ironically, benefiting from Massa's roadblock to get the jump on the unfortunate Hamilton.

On a not entirely incidental note, these newly-fashionable simultaneous pit-stops must surely be subject of some chatter in the Shanghai paddock in two weeks' time because it seems a minor absurdity that a car can be held up by another team deliberately parking one of their cars; indeed, it's not beyond question that simultaneous, rolling pit-stops will have to be banned in order to protect the integrity of the 'unsafe release' injunction. It's a complicated matter but it's also simple to see it as ripe for manipulation.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/22058/7627178/Conclusions-from-the-Malaysian-GP

It's probably worthy of a new thread but I couldn't be bothered

One of the other things I was thinking about in the race was when Rosberg said "I think we will all come in for inters", what chaos that would cause having 22 (or 21 at the time), cars enter the pit at the same time, every single one of them doing a double shuffle. I think it is right that they ban the double shuffle, except perhaps in circumstances where a car needs to pit for safety reasons. I think right now, we are putting pit crews in unnecessary danger. We've seen a t-bone accident in the pits already have we not?

 

[Abnash24]

I've seen several people post this and I really don't think he can be blamed, bearing in mind the conditions

sorry i didnt mean it like that i was just saying collectively that this race can be counted as a negative result given how much pace he showed and that all of the errors in the race, some which were not his fault. Essentially whether it was his fault or not he had a dissapointing race given the potential if everything had gone right

 

[FB]

How would you define safety reasons though John? Being on inters in torrential rain could be pretty unsafe, being on full wets (or very worn wets) on a drying track could be unsafe and the teams could easily justify bringing both drivers in at once. I've suggested this before but other members poo pooed it but what about 2 pit boxes per team?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

what about 2 pit boxes per team?

That would be like two shoes per foot. They wouldn't fit.

You would also need another ten men in each garage for pitstops.

 

[johnnoble1990]

How would you define safety reasons though John? Being on inters in torrential rain could be pretty unsafe, being on full wets (or very worn wets) on a drying track could be unsafe and the teams could easily justify bringing both drivers in at once. I've suggested this before but other members poo pooed it but what about 2 pit boxes per team?

I'll leave it to the FIA to write the 30,000 word section on what constitutes unsafe. I do think pit safety is one of the things that has been left behind. I'm sure 2 pit lanes has been debated by FIA, but whether or not it is feasible is another argument.

 

[Brogan]

I've suggested this before but other members poo pooed it but what about 2 pit boxes per team?

I doubt many (any?) of the pit lanes are big enough for 24 pit boxes.

 

[steveg]

I've seen several people post this and I really don't think he can be blamed, bearing in mind the conditions, his pit stop delay and the decision by his team to keep him out longer than everyone else on old rubber.

He lost 10 seconds on one lap due to being on old tyres too long, although even then he would have been highly unlikely to be able to catch and pass Pérez and Alonso as their cars were the quickest in the conditions.

This is the bit about Mclaren I just don't understand - they know Hami is more aggressive with his tyres (although I actually think he manages them better than alot of people make out) and yet they always seem to expect him to go on forever - and it always ends in tears. Now my own common sense tells me its not deliberate but you also have to question when is someone in the team actually gonna turn round and say "hang on a minute do you know what...."

 

[steveg]

As for Vettel - after having it all his own way for so long frustration is creeping in. He's been all smiles and charm but we may now get to see another side of him this season - it wasnt that long ago when he was making those "Webber is a mental case" gestures at Turkey. He's now back in the pack - same as where Alonso and Hamilton have been for the last 2 seasons and just needs to presss the reset button on his mindset.

 

[johnnoble1990]

This is the bit about Mclaren I just don't understand - they know Hami is more aggressive with his tyres (although I actually think he manages them better than alot of people make out) and yet they always seem to expect him to go on forever - and it always ends in tears. Now my own common sense tells me its not deliberate but you also have to question when is someone in the team actually gonna turn round and say "hang on a minute do you know what...."

I agree. If an extra stop is being considered by teams, then Lewis should be the first on it. He is great at making his way through the field and getting every second available out of tyres. This makes more sense last year though. I think while Mclaren are the quickest team, a more conservative strategy makes sense. No point taking unnecessary risks from the front at this early stage.

 

[johnnoble1990]

As for Vettel - after having it all his own way for so long frustration is creeping in. He's been all smiles and charm but we may now get to see another side of him this season - it wasnt that long ago when he was making those "Webber is a mental case" gestures at Turkey. He's now back in the pack - same as where Alonso and Hamilton have been for the last 2 seasons and just needs to presss the reset button on his mindset.

Though I agree that Vettel not being a racer is a tad over-critical, the fact is that only 23.8% of his wins have come from positions other than pole. Those comparing him to Schumacher should know that Michael actually won more races not on pole, than from pole (54.9%). Others of interest are:

Jenson Button 69.2% (9)
Kimi Raikkonen 66.67% (12)
Michael Schumacher 54.9% (50)
Lewis Hamilton 47.1% (8)
Fernando Alonso 44.4% (12)
Sebastian Vettel 23.8% (5)

Although this is limited by the fact that Sebastian tends to qualify well, it does show he is still to prove himself in the field as of those 5 wins, only once did he start outside the top 2 (3rd) and took the lead at the first corner, 2 of them he started 2nd and took the lead into the first corner and the other 2 he jumped into the lead at the pit stop phase.