Grand Prix 2011 Hungarian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Who was saying 2011 was boring?

It's amazing how a few non Red Bull dominated races can change the complexion of F1 and suddenly it's exciting again. However before we get too carried away, Vettel still holds a massive points lead and despite a poor (by his standards) race in Germany, he is still hot favourite as the F1 circus rolls into Hungary.

Hungary isn't known for it's exciting races (apart from 2006 possibly thanks to the weather) due to the dust bowl and lack of overtaking oppurtunities, but if 2011 is anything to go by, the phrase 'no overtaking' has been thrown out of the dictionary.

Despite recent set backs Red Bull will be favourites to bounce back at a circuit which suits them to a tee with weather conditions that will be beneficial to Vettel who struggled with grip at the chilly Nurburgring. However Ferrari and Mclaren have shown that they won't just stand still and let Red Bull walk to the championship with Hamilton and Alonso winning in the last 2 grand prix.

Indeed Mclaren seemed to be in trouble going into the German GP as they were off the pace of the Red Bulls and Ferraris, but in Hamiltons hands the car made a miracle recovery to not only take a front row position ahead of Vettel, but take the teams third win of the season after very stiff competition from Alonso and Webber. Is this the start of the established teams fightback?

Even beleagured Ferrari driver Massa has showed improved form recently with two 5th placed positions in the last 2 races but they could have easily been 2 fourth places had it not been for a strong defensive rearguard from Hamilton in Silverstone and a pit stop mess up in Germany which enabled Vettel to get past on the last lap. As Ferrari plan to take the fight to Red Bull, they will need Massa to take points off Vettel and Webber if Alonso is to have any chance of a miracle fightback.

Mercedes are in a league of their own at the moment, but not in a good way. They are faster than the likes of Renault and Force India, but slower than Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren and the 7th/8th place almost has a Mercedes name penned in if there aren't any incidents, (which knowing Schumacher is rare)

Renault have dropped off badly after a strong start to the season and after a crash from Heidfeld and a poor race from Petrov, they now find themselves picking up the scraps in the midfield for 5th place in the championship as Mercedes start to pull away from the black and gold outfit, maybe a tweak of the exhaust might bring them better fortunes in Hungary.

One person who drove a great race in Germany but hardly got any recognition was Adrian Sutil who drove probably the best race of the German drivers. 6th place after a strong qualifying will no doubt relieve the pressure that had been building on him and will show to Di Resta that he won't have things his own way at Force India and that Hulkenberg might have to wait a while for a race seat.

No doubt that there won't be any uncertainties about the weather this weekend as more often than not Hungary provides a race weekend with 30 degree sunshine with not a cloud to be seen, apart from the 2006 race which was notable for Jenson Buttons first win in the Honda.

For Galahads superb circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/hungaroring/
 
I don't see him winning tomorrow. That extra set of tyres is gonna do Lewis a big favour. Dirty side of the grid though. Great laps from Lewis and Seb. The Red Bull looked a bit lacking in speed and the McLaren looked a bit ragged. Props to Jenson and Filipe too. A bit lacking from Fernando and Mark, I feel.
 
Fantastic stuff from Jenson and especially Felipe to get in front of both Mark and Fernando on the grid. Should be a cracker for the start of the race now with the front 6 all desperate to win this race.
 
Yes, indeedy. Funny how just when we need the prospect of a real head to head race we seem to get one in the nick of time. Let's hope the race is as as tight as the grid.:)
 
A small chart showing the fastest sector times of the top 6 drivers: green is fastest, orange 2nd fastest, blue 3rd fastest.

2011-hungary-qualifying.webp


Even if the best times from each sector are counted, the only difference would have been Massa and Alonso switching places.
 
I think the thing is that even Lewis' first lap in Q3 was not perfect, he was down on Alonso through the first 2 sectors then pulled out a blinding 3rd sector. In his second run, he put in a good 1st sector but then messed up in the 2nd and 3rd sectors. I think Lewis' first lap in Q3 was good as it was his first run on super-softs during qualifying, however, his second run was unfortunately poor by his own very high standards. This could just be due to the fact the car was handling badly with minimum fuel or they got the tyre pressures slightly wrong, etc.

A question I want to know is, do all these drivers who do 2 runs in Q3 not refuel their cars? So when they do their first run, they have extra fuel compared to their second run? If so, this makes sense, as everyone usually improves a bit on their second run, although I always thought that was just to do with the track rubbering in. Martin Brundle did say they'd have fuel on-board for both runs though during Q3, but I thought this was only a tactic teams took at tracks like Spa where the lap is very long.

If that is indeed the case then had Hamilton of replicated his first lap on his second run, then the fuel load would have pulled him up with Vettel and possibly allowed him to pinch it. I heard the commentators saying that the less fuel they had the more over-steer they had though and this was noticeable for Hamilton especially.
 
Webber down in 6th is a surprise.

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I think at the Hungaroring just as in Monaco the tiniest imperfection, the smallest deviation from the racing line can be very costly over one lap, but for different reasons.
In Monaco because there is the barrier, at the Hungaroring because it's such a aturally dusty track than one wheel off the racing line will gather your tyre loads of dust and slow you down for the next three or four corners, you can easily drop from potential pole to sixth before you know it.
 
I sometimes ask myself, why do teams go option/option/option/prime instead of option/option/prime/option or anything where hards aren't last. The gain on low fuel and options is much better than primes and low fuel.
 
I sometimes ask myself, why do teams go option/option/option/prime instead of option/option/prime/option or anything where hards aren't last. The gain on low fuel and options is much better than primes and low fuel.

The short answer to that is track position.

If you run a slower tyre before your last stint then you may end up losing track position, even though you'll have the faster tyre on last. At a place like Hungary, where it is notoriously difficult to overtake, that is not a good idea.
 
Paul Hembery has suggested Hamilton could make 4 stops tomorrow: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/265491/pirelli-hamilton-could-four-stop-on-sunday/

I mentioned this in chat, but I just don't see how he can pull out enough of a gap to justify the time it will take for the extra stop.

Of course it all depends on the tyre degradation and how many laps the super softs can do before they become slower than a new set of softs.

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Maybe McLaren think Vettel will not actually be fastest in race trim? Not so far-fetched at all considering the other two teams behind are almost always comparatively faster in race-trim. If Vettel instead of romping away actually holds up three of four cars as fast, or even faster than him behind him, then Hamilton coming out of the pits on fresh options could quickly zoom in on them and negate his extra stop AND have fresher tyres for the majority of the race?

If Vettel isn't the fastest in race trim then it would make total sense.
 
Anyone else hopes it rains? BBC weather says heavy rain on monday and tuesday which is too late! But if there isn't any rain, lets hope the DRS works!
 
Like last week I don't want it to rain, the top 6 are separated by just over five tenths, gonna be some cracking racing tomorrow.
 
The only thing right about the grid setup is that the redbulls are spit by both McLaren and Ferrari.......the problem being the wrong redbull is at the back.
 
Great lap by Vettel, the McLaren's looked too strong and I thought they would be on pole, well Hamilton especially. But the McLaren's look too strong here, the better package overall.

Ferrari were a disappoint...well not Massa great for him, but obviously I expect him to finish behind Alonso :whistle: The Ferrari's where quite poor in the last sector, Alonso set his fastest sectors of 1 and 2 on his last lap as did Massa, but they lost out by a margin in the last sector

Webber hasn't looked hooked up all weekend, role reveral between him and Vettel?

I expect Hamilton win tomorrow, that's if he doesn't do the rumoured "4 stop".

Also like to add in, nice tactics by Toro Rosso and Buemi to do laps on the prime, and only just missed out of Q2 even though Maldonado used options. Hopefully some points will come his way :)
 
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