Grand Prix 2011 Hungarian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Who was saying 2011 was boring?

It's amazing how a few non Red Bull dominated races can change the complexion of F1 and suddenly it's exciting again. However before we get too carried away, Vettel still holds a massive points lead and despite a poor (by his standards) race in Germany, he is still hot favourite as the F1 circus rolls into Hungary.

Hungary isn't known for it's exciting races (apart from 2006 possibly thanks to the weather) due to the dust bowl and lack of overtaking oppurtunities, but if 2011 is anything to go by, the phrase 'no overtaking' has been thrown out of the dictionary.

Despite recent set backs Red Bull will be favourites to bounce back at a circuit which suits them to a tee with weather conditions that will be beneficial to Vettel who struggled with grip at the chilly Nurburgring. However Ferrari and Mclaren have shown that they won't just stand still and let Red Bull walk to the championship with Hamilton and Alonso winning in the last 2 grand prix.

Indeed Mclaren seemed to be in trouble going into the German GP as they were off the pace of the Red Bulls and Ferraris, but in Hamiltons hands the car made a miracle recovery to not only take a front row position ahead of Vettel, but take the teams third win of the season after very stiff competition from Alonso and Webber. Is this the start of the established teams fightback?

Even beleagured Ferrari driver Massa has showed improved form recently with two 5th placed positions in the last 2 races but they could have easily been 2 fourth places had it not been for a strong defensive rearguard from Hamilton in Silverstone and a pit stop mess up in Germany which enabled Vettel to get past on the last lap. As Ferrari plan to take the fight to Red Bull, they will need Massa to take points off Vettel and Webber if Alonso is to have any chance of a miracle fightback.

Mercedes are in a league of their own at the moment, but not in a good way. They are faster than the likes of Renault and Force India, but slower than Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren and the 7th/8th place almost has a Mercedes name penned in if there aren't any incidents, (which knowing Schumacher is rare)

Renault have dropped off badly after a strong start to the season and after a crash from Heidfeld and a poor race from Petrov, they now find themselves picking up the scraps in the midfield for 5th place in the championship as Mercedes start to pull away from the black and gold outfit, maybe a tweak of the exhaust might bring them better fortunes in Hungary.

One person who drove a great race in Germany but hardly got any recognition was Adrian Sutil who drove probably the best race of the German drivers. 6th place after a strong qualifying will no doubt relieve the pressure that had been building on him and will show to Di Resta that he won't have things his own way at Force India and that Hulkenberg might have to wait a while for a race seat.

No doubt that there won't be any uncertainties about the weather this weekend as more often than not Hungary provides a race weekend with 30 degree sunshine with not a cloud to be seen, apart from the 2006 race which was notable for Jenson Buttons first win in the Honda.

For Galahads superb circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/hungaroring/
 
Well after hearing about the rain and possibility of variable conditions....in the chat section I predicted Button and well no real surprises. This is why you don't make defacto number 1 and 2's, reliability and bung decisions really cost Button or he will be ahead of Lewis at this venture. To much disrespect shown to Button and his actual race craft, he appears to be a very logical driver.

On the drive through penalty, good decision, if you start making leniacy calls just because then it lends itself to bias, rules are rules and all must obey, unsafe re-entry and of that nature is shockingly reckless.
 
Hamilton was facing the oncoming traffic, it seems to me

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Indeed but I wasn't necessarily referring to Hamilton's spin in particular. I have seen quite a few instances of a driver ending a spin in a position where they can't quite see what's coming behind.
But yes it was more of a general question so maybe it was a bit inappriate for this thread.
 
Under those circumstances, the driver has to wait for any oncoming traffic to clear before making the manoeuvre.

Hamilton didn't and di Resta was forced to go wide.

He should have waited until it was clear, he didn't, he was penalised.
He was covering more ground sdtationary than he was by spinning it around. His car was on the racing line and would've stayed on the racing line if he hadn't lit up the rears and spun it back around.
 
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Indeed but I wasn't necessarily referring to Hamilton's spin in particular. I have seen quite a few instances of a driver ending a spin in a position where they can't quite see what's coming behind.
But yes it was more of a general question so maybe it was a bit inappriate for this thread.

It's certainly a good question.
 
A slight moment of concern and rather pointing out or dispeling this notion that Ferrari on the straight is a bullet, happened when Webber out of the final turn, knocked Alonso approaching the start/finish line well before the breaking zone for turn 1. That to me pretty much puts to sleep the Idea that Ferrari have flatline speed or anything for that matter, McLaren and RB had no issues passing Ferrari's today, and with rather nonchalant ease.

As it stands McLaren and RBR are the undoubted fastest cars, with Ferrari trying to fill in somewhere.

I will take 3rd today as it looked like 5th was the only result at one time, Mr Consistant on the podium again more than satisfying, come hook or crook.
 
Well after hearing about the rain and possibility of variable conditions....in the chat section I predicted Button and well no real surprises. This is why you don't make defacto number 1 and 2's, reliability and bung decisions really cost Button or he will be ahead of Lewis at this venture. To much disrespect shown to Button and his actual race craft, he appears to be a very logical driver.

On the drive through penalty, good decision, if you start making leniacy calls just because then it lends itself to bias, rules are rules and all must obey, unsafe re-entry and of that nature is shockingly reckless.

Today must be like Christmas for you. ;-)
 
I said it at the time, there is no way anyone was going to make 20+ seconds in 10-15 laps, there just wasn't enough of a difference between the 2 compounds.

Truly remarkable decision by 'Mission Control' back in Woking. "Lets make the race leader push at 10/10ths for an entire stint to clear a gap to his TEAMMATE!"

As I said earlier, they cooked up a brilliant scheme to keep their drivers away from each other and it backfired magnificently.
 
reliability and bung decisions really cost Button

Hamilton has been affected just as much though. The McLaren drivers should be a clear 2nd and 3rd in the championship really, and Hamilton could easily have had three more victories to his name had things gone his way (he had good opportunities at Spain, Monaco, Montreal and today to name a few - all of which went wrong for one reason or another).
 
A slight moment of concern and rather pointing out or dispeling this notion that Ferrari on the straight is a bullet, happened when Webber out of the final turn, knocked Alonso approaching the start/finish line well before the breaking zone for turn 1. That to me pretty much puts to sleep the Idea that Ferrari have flatline speed or anything for that matter, McLaren and RB had no issues passing Ferrari's today, and with rather nonchalant ease.

As it stands McLaren and RBR are the undoubted fastest cars, with Ferrari trying to fill in somewhere.

Ferrari is plenty fast on the straights.

Massa was 2nd fastest today behind Perez
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/hun-race-trap.pdf

Alonso was 3rd fastest yesterday
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/hun-qualifying-trap.pdf
 
Hamilton has been affected just as much though. The McLaren drivers should be a clear 2nd and 3rd in the championship really, and Hamilton could easily have had three more victories to his name had things gone his way (he had good opportunities at Spain, Monaco, Montreal and today to name a few - all of which went wrong for one reason or another).

Yes and know. We killed the topic of Montreal so that was self inflicted. From the commentary today, they suggested that Lewis elected to go onto Inters, so again that is driver choice not the team decision. And well lastly the drive through again.....driver self inflicted hardship.

My feeling on Button is that it was 1) car failure and 2) Pit crew error that cost him. Anyways it is irrelevent.

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I would like to say that Vettel aged again today, made errors and instead of forcing the issue extends his points lead, great drive by a ever improving and impressive young driver.
 
I come from a Jewish family so what is this Christmas thingy you talk about?

What are you insenuating now?

I'm just congratulating you on the result. Don't worry, I'm not getting religious on you. It's a well used phrase in English language. You can find out all about Christmas on Wikipedia if you've never come across it.

Anyway, back to the race discussion. Jenson once again receives a win and heaps of praise for his "supreme ability to read the conditions" whilst at the same time looking a bit bemused as to how it all came to him but accepting the praise sheepishly anyway.

Exploding Renault. Wowsers! I wonder if that would have injured Heidfeld had he still been in the cockpit. Would love to see what the inside looks like although perhaps the full force of the explosion was outwards.
 
Ferrari is plenty fast on the straights.

Massa was 2nd fastest today behind Perez
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/hun-race-trap.pdf

Alonso was 3rd fastest yesterday
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/hun-qualifying-trap.pdf

I think there are reasons for all, maybe open air and the lot, but I think when McLaren and RB needed to pass a Ferrari, it was done without much fuss, the only let off was the last passes on Massa with faded tyres.

I don't really think that Ferrari are all that quick, maybe just lighter on tyres or easy to drive generally, but again can't get up to temp. I am starting to feel that Alonso is getting way more out of the car than what it is actually capable on fair reflection. Massa is good indication of exactly what a Ferrari is...Miles behind the contenders but ahead of the pretenders.
 
Lap chart of the top 5 drivers.

2011-hungary-lap-times.webp
 
I come from a Jewish family so what is this Christmas thingy you talk about?

What are you insenuating now?

Let's not make it personal, shall we?

Anyway, it was an entertaining race I thought. The drive-through was a bit harsh but he did get in the way of Paul. I personally thought he would get a fine, but oh well.
I thought it was nice to see Button win on his 200th GP on the same track as his first win :). Well done to him.
Bad day for Sauber though :(. No points for them today.
 
Exploding Reanult. Wowsers! I wonder if that would have injured Heidfeld had he still been in the cockpit. Would love to see what the inside looks like although perhaps the full force of the explosion was outwards.

Wonder what the deal is with Renault and Heidfeld with flames and explosions.
 
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