Grand Prix 2010 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

We've now passed the mid point of the season and it certainly appears to be turning into a four horse race between the Red Bulls and the McLarens. Arriving in Hockenheim there are several questions between these two teams that need to be answered and it will be interesting come Friday morning to see how the weekend will play out.

The track suits cars that have excellent grip and balance between downforce and straight line speed. To that end you have to say that the Red Bulls are the best prepared cars to meet this challenge but how will the team be effected by the continued friction in the camp? McLaren's upgrades at Silverstone were almost a complete disaster and seriously effected their weekend. In the interim two week gap have their computers managed to sort out the blown diffuser or will they risk not using it and concede a small advantage to the RBRs?

Ferrari and Mercedes have to come good this weekend. Ferrari had another weekend they would want to forget in Silverstone. Despite the issues that Alonso had with penalties the car did show some signs of pace but once again his temperament was called into question while his team mate slips further into mediocrity. Will Massa slide further into the midfield or will he wake up? Rosberg keeps plugging away for Mercedes but the team still need to find a big improvement if it hopes to compete for wins by the end of the season. They have all the right ingredients but still can't seem to make a decent cake. As an all German team in owner and drivers there will be no hiding at Hockenheim.

The midfield has already been wonderfully summarised in TBY's post but it's fair to say that Williams, BMW Sauber and Force India will be fighting it out for the last points paying positions here. The improvement of both Williams and Sauber has been impressive in the last few races especially after both teams had an appalling start to their season. Obviously with both Hulkenburg and Sutil on home soil they will be looking to impress here. Due to the two different tyres being provided by Bridgestone this weekend Force India have deceided to maximise the time on track for their two regular drivers and therefore regular Friday test driver Paul Di Resta will be sitting this one out.

At the back end of the field I'm sorry to say that the three new teams will be left to scrap it out among themselves again since this track will not suit any of the new cars with their lack of downforce, mechanical grip and straight line speed. Lotus will be running Fauzy again on the Friday and I'm sure he will be praying for fewer mechanical issues than he had at Silverstone. Timo Glock is of course another driver who will be on home soil this weekend and keen to show what he can do. He split the two Loti in the time sheets over most of the Silverstone weekend and will be expected to do the same here. Much has already been written about HRTs new policy of driver swaps but Yamamoto didn't actually do that badly in Silverstone and it will be interesting given that he has now had some track time in the car to see how he compares with Senna's pace.

The two factors that will undoubtedly play the biggest roll in this weekends outcome are the weather and the tyres. All things being equal, I've got to go for a Vettel win but as Murry Walker used to say "Anything can happen in F1 and it usually does".
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

FB said:
[quote:354j1cpn]FB said: when Smedley came on with that now infamous message he should have just driven into the pits, got out and walked away from his multi million pound contract perhaps never to get another seat in a Formula One team again.

Just thought I'd finish that sentence for you. ;)


I don't often quote passages from the Bible but this seems appropriate for Felipe.

Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
[/quote:354j1cpn]

Bible as we've seen is open for interpretation, but I don't see how you would target Felipe here. Felipe gained nothing there.. if someone lost his soul it's Alonso.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Sakari, I was really picking up on CaT's point about his multi million contract being more important than winning the race which, on the face of it, appears to be the issue. If he really didn't want to give the place to Alonso why did he? Had he not would the team have sacked him? Based on Barrichello's interview on Top Gear a few weeks ago that appears to have been the threat made to him in Austria '02.

I agree on Alonso, how he had the cheek to smile when standing on the podium and do all that "clenched fist" rubbish when he got out of the car is beyond me. From Fernando's perspective I would presume he was simply asking the team to enforce something he felt entitled to. What none of us know is what is written into either Alonso's or Massa's contracts with regard to this sort of situation but for him to "celebrate" in any way, shape or form beggers belief.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The Race Speed Trap chart makes interesting reading:

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/ger-race-trap.pdf

POS NO DRIVER     KPH    TIME OF DAY  Finished
1 1 J. BUTTON 319.5 14:29:17 5th
4 2 L. HAMILTON 316.5 14:36:09 4th
6 5 S. VETTEL 312.5 14:30:42 3rd
9 4 N. ROSBERG 311.5 14:03:59 8th
10 3 M. SCHUM' 311.3 14:36:33 9th
13 12 V. PETROV 310.4 14:44:35 10th
14 11 R. KUBICA 310.2 14:41:52 7th
16 6 M. WEBBER 309.2 14:17:20 6th
20 8 F. ALONSO 307.9 14:05:17 1st/2nd
22 7 F. MASSA 307.6 14:05:17 2nd/1st

I am pretty sure McLaren would have been a lot more competitive running with more wing. :s

Perhaps they were gambling on being able to overtake... :unsure:
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I had to laugh at this article about Schumacher's views on the 'Team orders' issue, and the conclusion of the Telegraph's Mike Norrish:

'Here's an easy way to decide debates about sporting morality.
1. See which side Michael Schumacher's on.
2. Take the other side. Rarely will you be in the wrong.'

http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6279 ... he-title...
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
I am pretty sure McLaren would have been a lot more competitive running with more wing. :s

Perhaps they were gambling on being able to overtake... :unsure:

Well the straight line speed advantage was very evident when Lewis drove straight past Mark.

So in that sense it worked but they were off the pace of the front runners for the rest of the race.

Maybe it was a compromise due to the limited testing data they got from the weekend?
It's possible the rear end is still skittish and that was the only way to keep it under control?
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
Maybe it was a compromise due to the limited testing data they got from the weekend?
It's possible the rear end is still skittish and that was the only way to keep it under control?

Pardon me if I'm being silly but if the Mclaren was 'skittish' wouldn't more downforce, especially at the rear, have helped rather than hindered? :s
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Chad Stewarthill said:
Pardon me if I'm being silly but if the Mclaren was 'skittish' wouldn't more downforce, especially at the rear, have helped rather than hindered? :s
Of course!
I don't know why I posted that
facepalm.gif


Can I blame it on my age?
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The EBD can generate unexpected levels of downforce with the accelerator and too much downforce at one end can be as destructive as too little... if it happens all of a sudden.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
The EBD can generate unexpected levels of downforce with the accelerator and too much downforce at one end can be as destructive as too little... if it happens all of a sudden.

Which will be why they need to get the management system sorted to get the gases flowing at a constant rate when the car needs the extra downforce.

Do you think these systems can be set up so gases only flow over the EBD when the car is braking or cornering?
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

But as far as I know the decision on the car configuration - Low/Medium/high downforce - needs to be made well in advance of the race and the cars shipped with specific parts for that configuration. I have never heard of a team changing its mind and bolting on a high downforce set up on a medium configured car. That's not to say they don't do it all the time though. :dunno:

Which will be why they need to get the management system sorted to get the gases flowing at a constant rate when the car needs the extra downforce.

Unfortunately that trick apparently produces so much heat you can only safely use it for one lap...
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I will pipe up here, I was wondering why McLaren forced Jenson to sit behind Lewis and not have a go at him after the pit stop as Jenson was quite clearly faster than Lewis and only behind due to Vettel brake testing him into the first corner. If you watch the start again, you can clearly see how much better he got away than Lewis.

If you then look at the lap times, there were many time he was up to .5 secs faster than Lewis, yet 'go to G8' was the call from Whitmarsh.

As no one else has mentioned it, and someone has voted him COTW due to finishing behind Lewis, can someone explain the problem if he had overtaken Lewis and closed the gap in the WDC?

If I was Jense, I would be questioning McLarens actions and trying to get some clarity about the situation.

I suppose at least McLaren were subtle about their team orders, I just want to know why they even had team orders?!?
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

RickD said:
If you then look at the lap times, there were many time he was up to .5 secs faster than Lewis, yet 'go to G8' was the call from Whitmarsh.
I'm fairly sure it was only Lewis who was told to go to G8.
As he was in front he was burning more fuel due to punching the hole through the air.

I don't think Jenson was at any point prohibited from trying to pass Lewis.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

F1Yorkshire said:
Do you think these systems can be set up so gases only flow over the EBD when the car is braking or cornering?
...Their other knee isn't doing anything, :thinking: surely it's just a question of flicking another F-Duct type switch. :thumbsup:
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

As an interesting aside, a lot has been made about the fact that if Alonso was so much faster than Massa then why didn't he get by him on the track. Interestingly the poll sitting car of Vettel's which was right on the bubble all weekend couldn't get by either Alonso or Massa so it would seem that passing at the front end of the grid on this track was difficult to say the least and leads us back to the point that we all know, overtaking in F1 is still not as easy as it should be.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
RickD said:
If you then look at the lap times, there were many time he was up to .5 secs faster than Lewis, yet 'go to G8' was the call from Whitmarsh.
I'm fairly sure it was only Lewis who was told to go to G8.
As he was in front he was burning more fuel due to punching the hole through the air.

I don't think Jenson was at any point prohibited from trying to pass Lewis.
That was all we heard, I would say that does not mean that is all there was. There is no denying that Jenson was faster than Lewis.. :dunno:
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
F1Yorkshire said:
Do you think these systems can be set up so gases only flow over the EBD when the car is braking or cornering?
...Their other knee isn't doing anything, :thinking: surely it's just a question of flicking another F-Duct type switch. :thumbsup:

Then we could end up with both McLaren drivers doing the Can Can for 200 miles.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

F1Yorkshire said:
Do you think these systems can be set up so gases only flow over the EBD when the car is braking or cornering?

Surely they are only working when the throttle is being applied? Which is why the Red Bull's version works so well in high speed corners where you need plenty of throttle application, and also why they have such fantastic traction from slow speed corners. There shouldn't be any need for a switch, other than one beginning of a qualifying session, like Red Bull's, where they can only use it during qualifying because it gets too hot.

RickD said:
There is no denying that Jenson was faster than Lewis.

Lewis crossed the line ahead, and that's what counts. I don't think Jenson was stopped from having a go at Lewis, and actually given Button's pace, he should've made it count.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

RickD said:
Brogan said:
RickD said:
If you then look at the lap times, there were many time he was up to .5 secs faster than Lewis, yet 'go to G8' was the call from Whitmarsh.
I'm fairly sure it was only Lewis who was told to go to G8.
As he was in front he was burning more fuel due to punching the hole through the air.

I don't think Jenson was at any point prohibited from trying to pass Lewis.
That was all we heard, I would say that does not mean that is all there was. There is no denying that Jenson was faster than Lewis.. :dunno:
There doesn't look that much in it to me :dunno:

[Click image to view full size]
 

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Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Bro - Do you have the raw data in a useable format? I'm sure you must have to create the graph?
 
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