Grand Prix 2010 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

We've now passed the mid point of the season and it certainly appears to be turning into a four horse race between the Red Bulls and the McLarens. Arriving in Hockenheim there are several questions between these two teams that need to be answered and it will be interesting come Friday morning to see how the weekend will play out.

The track suits cars that have excellent grip and balance between downforce and straight line speed. To that end you have to say that the Red Bulls are the best prepared cars to meet this challenge but how will the team be effected by the continued friction in the camp? McLaren's upgrades at Silverstone were almost a complete disaster and seriously effected their weekend. In the interim two week gap have their computers managed to sort out the blown diffuser or will they risk not using it and concede a small advantage to the RBRs?

Ferrari and Mercedes have to come good this weekend. Ferrari had another weekend they would want to forget in Silverstone. Despite the issues that Alonso had with penalties the car did show some signs of pace but once again his temperament was called into question while his team mate slips further into mediocrity. Will Massa slide further into the midfield or will he wake up? Rosberg keeps plugging away for Mercedes but the team still need to find a big improvement if it hopes to compete for wins by the end of the season. They have all the right ingredients but still can't seem to make a decent cake. As an all German team in owner and drivers there will be no hiding at Hockenheim.

The midfield has already been wonderfully summarised in TBY's post but it's fair to say that Williams, BMW Sauber and Force India will be fighting it out for the last points paying positions here. The improvement of both Williams and Sauber has been impressive in the last few races especially after both teams had an appalling start to their season. Obviously with both Hulkenburg and Sutil on home soil they will be looking to impress here. Due to the two different tyres being provided by Bridgestone this weekend Force India have deceided to maximise the time on track for their two regular drivers and therefore regular Friday test driver Paul Di Resta will be sitting this one out.

At the back end of the field I'm sorry to say that the three new teams will be left to scrap it out among themselves again since this track will not suit any of the new cars with their lack of downforce, mechanical grip and straight line speed. Lotus will be running Fauzy again on the Friday and I'm sure he will be praying for fewer mechanical issues than he had at Silverstone. Timo Glock is of course another driver who will be on home soil this weekend and keen to show what he can do. He split the two Loti in the time sheets over most of the Silverstone weekend and will be expected to do the same here. Much has already been written about HRTs new policy of driver swaps but Yamamoto didn't actually do that badly in Silverstone and it will be interesting given that he has now had some track time in the car to see how he compares with Senna's pace.

The two factors that will undoubtedly play the biggest roll in this weekends outcome are the weather and the tyres. All things being equal, I've got to go for a Vettel win but as Murry Walker used to say "Anything can happen in F1 and it usually does".
 

cosicave

Banned
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

A well-researched and provocative article cider, but it's rather similar to Galahad's isn't it? viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1903&start=10.

Home advantage to Red Bull. Aero advantage to Red Bull. Familiarity advantage to Vettel. If Red Bull don't win this one, they may start scratching their heads. Ferrari also have a good chance to do well, and there are very positive noises coming from Mercedes.

If McLaren win here because their blown diffuser brings them in line with Red Bull's level of downforce, they should sail off into the distance for the rest of the season. - But somehow I don't think it'll be quite that simple…
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

cosicave said:
A well-researched and provocative article cider, but it's rather similar to Galahad's isn't it? viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1903&start=10.

cosicave, if you check the GP Previews and GP Discussions forums you will see that this is the pattern followed for every race.

Galahad posts the preview which contains circuit details, information and statistics, usually at the beginning of the week. This is more of a circuit-centric thread rather than race specific.

cider_and_toast then posts the main discussion thread on a Thursday which is used for all sessions from practice until after the race has finished.

After the race we then have the "best" and "worst" driver polls as can be seen here.

We think this is a unique approach to a race weekend and find it works very well.
 

Feckless

Rookie
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I think Ferrari should go well, perhaps better that you suggest CAT.

I think their lap times in Silverstone showed the car was fast. It was just FA and FM kept driving into and across things.

So I reckon its a 6 horse race. (Well perhaps 5 if Massa doesn't get his head straight and his tyres warmed up.)
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I just don't see it as a Red Bull track, :s there are just too many important slow speed turns, even the 3rd gear turns are slow 3rd gear turns. :unsure:

In my rFactor and GTR2 race sims I do rather well at Hockenheim and I am abominable in fast corners. :embarrassed:

It is nearly but not quite the antithesis of Silverstones testicularly challenging high speed fest'.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I wonder if this is the highest number of Germans to have ever contested their home GP?

We have 6 in total.

Vettel
Rosberg
Schumacher
Sutil
Hulkenberg
Glock.

That's pretty impressive, of the 24 drivers on the grid a quarter are from Germany.
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
I just don't see it as a Red Bull track, :s there are just too many important slow speed turns, even the 3rd gear turns are slow 3rd gear turns. :unsure:

In my rFactor and GTR2 race sims I do rather well at Hockenheim and I am abominable in fast corners. :embarrassed:

I'm of the opinion that every track is a RedBull track this year snowy. Even if a track doesn't seem to suit all the strengths of the RedBull car, it always seems to suit them more than any other team ;)

Things to watch out for:
Rain on the Friday scuppering McLarens EBD test session
Can Alonso get his head back in the right place?
Will Williams continue their excellent form of the last 2 races, and Rubens secure a further top 6 finish?
Where will Renault feature as the only team towards the front of the grid not to be running an f-duct? Will they struggle?
Will Schumacher, and especially Jenson get back on track at a circuit where they traditionally excel?

So many questions to be answered :D

CaT, :goodday:, as always :)
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

MajorDanby said:
Where will Renault feature as the only team towards the front of the grid not to be running an f-duct? Will they struggle?

Good point MD, to my shame, I forgot all about Renault in my round up. Perhaps it was because they had an indifferent race at Silverstone and there were so many other impressive performances, Rosberg's podium and Ruben's 5th place for example.

Especially with Kubica, Renault were pushing to challenge for the 3rd placed spot in the WCC however of late all though RK is still bringing home the points they seem to have fallen away from the front 4. They are now over 30 points behind Mercedes. I think the gap between Renault and the chasing Force India and Williams cars is too big now to see them fall further however you can definitely say that their season is fizzling out.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Well Robbie K does't seem to up beat about his chances in Germany but who would have thought Renault woudl achieve half of what they have this season.

“As usual, I will try to do my best and to extract the maximum from the car,” said Kubica in a team preview.

“Most of the teams we are racing now have both the F-duct and the blown floor, so I think it could be quite a tough weekend, and we need to make sure that our pace is more competitive than at the last race.

“All the cars we are racing already have an F-duct system, and this makes our life harder because we may have to reduce downforce to be competitive on top speed, which could cost us in the corners. We will have to evaluate the best compromise for us on Friday.”

Borrowed from http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1...lack-of-f-duct-to-hurt-renault-at-hockenheim/

there is a list as long as your arm of drivers being linked with the second seat at Renault. Latest reports say that Kimi will sign up for a 2nd season of rallying so perhpas we can exclude his name but the current list is Petrov, Heidfeld, Kovaleinen, Klien & Sutil. Toro Rosso have taken up the option on Jaime watisface's contract for 2011 so he is out of the running.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

FB said:
Kovaleinen

Not a chance. He's apparently really enjoying being at Lotus. I can't see him wanting to move.

Plus, I've only just bought my lucky Lotus Racing - Kovaleinen baseball cap.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

FB said:
there is a list as long as your arm of drivers being linked with the second seat at Renault. Latest reports say that Kimi will sign up for a 2nd season of rallying so perhpas we can exclude his name but the current list is Petrov, Heidfeld, Kovalainen, Klien & Sutil..

Don't think I'd consider Klien. The Force would be turning to the Dark Side if they released Sutil. I can't see Kovalainen going back to Renault. So Petrov or Heidfeld. It depends on how they rate Kubica, but Heidfeld/Kubica has not proven to be a bad partnership before.

Weaving back on topic, if there is something to find from Renault, Kubica will find it! Renault have sometimes been in front of Mercedes and sometimes behind, I wonder...
 

cosicave

Banned
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
…We think this is a unique approach to a race weekend and find it works very well.

OK, thanks for that explanation Brogan. Now it makes sense.
And since I am officially a 'Learner', I'm pleased I raised the point before I take my test… Cheers

This is an 'Edit': By an astonishing coincidence, this post appears to have promoted me to 'Test Driver'. I must therefore conclude that I have passed!
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

cosicave said:
And since I am officially a 'Learner', I'm pleased I raised the point before I take my test… Cheers

Haha, timing! LOL Now you're a test driver!
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

No problem cosicave, happy to help :thumbsup:

As always, if you have any questions, feel free to ask them either on a post or via PM.

For those who are quite new to all this, a few of us are usually loitering in Chat during each session.
 

cosicave

Banned
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

teabagyokel said:
cosicave said:
And since I am officially a 'Learner', I'm pleased I raised the point before I take my test… Cheers

Haha, timing! LOL Now you're a test driver!
Blimey! You guys are quick! - I see that I still have much to learn…
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

cosicave said:
teabagyokel said:
cosicave said:
And since I am officially a 'Learner', I'm pleased I raised the point before I take my test… Cheers

Haha, timing! LOL Now you're a test driver!
Blimey! You guys are quick! - I see that I still have much to learn…

You move up ranks based upon the amount of posts you make, unless you do what I did and get a :1st: or you somehow earn a special commendation from the site founder which entitles you to a rank of your own.
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

If it rains on Friday i don't think McLaren will win as they won't have reasonable data for their Blown Diffuser, so really it looks like a Red Bull win, but then who knows what'll happen between Vettel and Webber. If they start 1 and 2, there will be a lot of jostling into turn 1 and then particulary up to the hairpin. A wet qualifying could mess things up though like in Malaysia that caught out Ferrari and McLaren so i wouldnt be suprised to see a Mercedes or Renault driver on the podium come Sunday
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I made the same suggestion on another thread McLarenSupremo and according to all the latest reports, it is currently raining in Hockenheim and it looks like it's staying for the weekend...


Welcome to the site BTW
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Cheers Brogan, the weather being the way it is supposed to be, then it looks like a Red Bull lockout then unless Mclarens upgrades work right out of the box and as Silverstone proved, that was false. But we thought Turkey and Silverstone would be Red Bull 1-2s and we all know how that happen. I wouldnt put it past Red Bull for another driver confrontation this weekend. Maybe this could help Schumacher, he needs some luck at the moment surely? :whistle:
 

cosicave

Banned
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

McLarenSupremo said:
If it rains on Friday i don't think McLaren will win as they won't have reasonable data for their Blown Diffuser, so really it looks like a Red Bull win, but then who knows what'll happen between Vettel and Webber. If they start 1 and 2, there will be a lot of jostling into turn 1 and then particulary up to the hairpin. A wet qualifying could mess things up though like in Malaysia that caught out Ferrari and McLaren so i wouldnt be suprised to see a Mercedes or Renault driver on the podium come Sunday
Yes, I'd agree with this. Pretty much what I've been saying elsewhere.

And "Hello" McLarenSupremo
 
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