Grand Prix 2010 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

We've now passed the mid point of the season and it certainly appears to be turning into a four horse race between the Red Bulls and the McLarens. Arriving in Hockenheim there are several questions between these two teams that need to be answered and it will be interesting come Friday morning to see how the weekend will play out.

The track suits cars that have excellent grip and balance between downforce and straight line speed. To that end you have to say that the Red Bulls are the best prepared cars to meet this challenge but how will the team be effected by the continued friction in the camp? McLaren's upgrades at Silverstone were almost a complete disaster and seriously effected their weekend. In the interim two week gap have their computers managed to sort out the blown diffuser or will they risk not using it and concede a small advantage to the RBRs?

Ferrari and Mercedes have to come good this weekend. Ferrari had another weekend they would want to forget in Silverstone. Despite the issues that Alonso had with penalties the car did show some signs of pace but once again his temperament was called into question while his team mate slips further into mediocrity. Will Massa slide further into the midfield or will he wake up? Rosberg keeps plugging away for Mercedes but the team still need to find a big improvement if it hopes to compete for wins by the end of the season. They have all the right ingredients but still can't seem to make a decent cake. As an all German team in owner and drivers there will be no hiding at Hockenheim.

The midfield has already been wonderfully summarised in TBY's post but it's fair to say that Williams, BMW Sauber and Force India will be fighting it out for the last points paying positions here. The improvement of both Williams and Sauber has been impressive in the last few races especially after both teams had an appalling start to their season. Obviously with both Hulkenburg and Sutil on home soil they will be looking to impress here. Due to the two different tyres being provided by Bridgestone this weekend Force India have deceided to maximise the time on track for their two regular drivers and therefore regular Friday test driver Paul Di Resta will be sitting this one out.

At the back end of the field I'm sorry to say that the three new teams will be left to scrap it out among themselves again since this track will not suit any of the new cars with their lack of downforce, mechanical grip and straight line speed. Lotus will be running Fauzy again on the Friday and I'm sure he will be praying for fewer mechanical issues than he had at Silverstone. Timo Glock is of course another driver who will be on home soil this weekend and keen to show what he can do. He split the two Loti in the time sheets over most of the Silverstone weekend and will be expected to do the same here. Much has already been written about HRTs new policy of driver swaps but Yamamoto didn't actually do that badly in Silverstone and it will be interesting given that he has now had some track time in the car to see how he compares with Senna's pace.

The two factors that will undoubtedly play the biggest roll in this weekends outcome are the weather and the tyres. All things being equal, I've got to go for a Vettel win but as Murry Walker used to say "Anything can happen in F1 and it usually does".
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

One thing which many of us have missed with all the discussion about "Sorrymategate" was a sub 3 second pitstop by the Williams team on Nico Hulkenberg's car. I may be wrong but I think this was the first time this has occured.

Well done Williams.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The crucial stage for Lewis and Jenson appeared to be just after Jenson's pit stop on lap 23 and here it shows that Lewis was in control and Jenson wasn't actually able or willing to catch him:

Jenson          Lewis
01:33.000 01:19.532
01:19.622 01:19.309
01:19.590 01:19.595
01:19.191 01:19.114
01:19.269 01:19.172
01:19.095 01:18.933
01:18.958 01:18.599
01:18.811 01:18.940
01:18.575 01:18.689
01:18.877 01:18.760
01:18.569 01:18.458
01:18.343 01:18.557
01:18.253 01:18.111
01:18.205 01:18.168
01:18.038 01:18.541
01:19.083 01:18.426
01:17.951 01:18.018
01:17.852 01:18.092
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

There is a wider issue though, perhaps, which is that Button should have been able to save more fuel than Hamilton, running in the slipstream, and therefore there should have been a point later in the race when Button could run richer and possibly take advantage. The same applies to tyre management, to a lesser extent.

Of course, that was the recipe that led to Vettel/Webber colliding in Istanbul...

Now if McLaren are going to call the race off after half-distance (and I don't know that they are, but it certainly looks like it) that is going to seriously compromise Button's options in terms of utilising his apparent strengths as a driver.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I think I'm right in saying that prior to this season, McLaren drivers were expected to hold station after the last pit stop?

Perhaps they are continuing that policy this season but as there is only generally 1 stop per race now it's happening sooner?
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Towards the end of the race Lewis was told that there was no need to conserve fuel any more. Both he and Jenson sped up significantly and Jenson pushed so hard towards the end that he went off in turn 1 and scuppered any chances of catching Lewis.

I'm guessing they were released around lap 54

Jenson          Lewis
01:17.102 01:17.247
01:17.143 01:17.126
01:17.145 01:17.083
01:16.912 01:16.791
01:17.185 01:17.203
01:17.092 01:17.065
01:16.834 01:17.706
01:17.143 01:16.913
01:16.613 01:16.795
01:16.791 01:16.931
01:16.787 01:16.704
01:16.451 01:16.503
01:17.988 01:16.835
01:17.305 01:17.161
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Early in the race the commentators suggested that G8 was referring to a low fuel use mode. Lewis was told over the radio to conserve fuel as they would need this mode at the end of the race. Myself and Fenderman both immediately inferred the opposite was true and that G8 is full rich, I think they used G8 and I still maintain they were actually racing...
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
Early in the race the commentators suggested that G8 was referring to a low fuel use mode. Lewis was told over the radio to conserve fuel as they would need this mode at the end of the race. Myself and Fenderman both immediately inferred the opposite was true and that G8 is full rich, I think they used G8 and I still maintain they were actually racing...

Snowy, I can't say that I know exactly what Yellow G8 means, but I don't think it is the Full Rich setting. In Valencia when the team told Lewis they would be doing a Drive-Through in a couple laps, they told him to go to Yellow G5 and push. I assume that this would be the Full Rich setting, as Hamilton then put in some blistering laps.

I do believe the McLaren's were racing each other though, because as we have seen earlier this year, settings or orders be damned, Jenson won't hesitate to have a go at Lewis if the opportunity presents itself. There was only a small window where it appeared that Button was being held up slightly, and if he could have gotten by, he would have.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Afternoon All,

I thought this race was a pretty boring parade, not withstanding turn one, lap one. Massa must have thought the Red Sea was parting for him! Lewis and Webber had a cracking battle through the whole of sector one.

Also the German director (very understandably) spent alot of the race following Micky Shoemaker trundle round instead of following the leaders.

Ferraris actions are going to be discussed to death here and elsewhere, but for me there is a categorical difference between managing your drivers differently, the way McClaren and others do with tyre choice, fuel load etc etc. and falsifying the result of a race. The teams are entitled to build whatever car they choose, set it up how they wish for the race and then send the drivers on their way to get the best out of it.

The fine detail is going to be picked over but surely the point of sport and F1 is that it is not scripted. Judgement, skill and and a little bit of luck influence the result. To decide the outcome the way Ferrari have chosen to is not sporting. Draw parallels if you will between the other big race on Sunday, the Tour de France. Here team orders are very much essential to the drama of the sport, teams members have roles, everything is managed and still a cycling team would NEVER behave the way Ferrari have done. If a guy is racing for the stage win he races for it.

BTW has anyone else noticed how Spain are doing recently: -

European soccer champions
World soccer champions
Wimbledon winner
Tour de France yellow jersey
German GP
Economy - Fucked
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I didnt write Economy - chuffed.

I wrote something else to see if the swear checker was working. :D
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

KekeTheKing said:
snowy said:
Early in the race the commentators suggested that G8 was referring to a low fuel use mode. Lewis was told over the radio to conserve fuel as they would need this mode at the end of the race. Myself and Fenderman both immediately inferred the opposite was true and that G8 is full rich, I think they used G8 and I still maintain they were actually racing...

Snowy, I can't say that I know exactly what Yellow G8 means, but I don't think it is the Full Rich setting.

Agreed Keke, I've heard the 'Yellow G8' setting being asked for lots of times in the past at the end of a race for Hamilton, usually when he's won and you hear the radio celebrations.

I too believe it's a fairly low fuel setting, it would make sense at the end of a race.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Enja said:
I too believe it's a fairly low fuel setting, it would make sense at the end of a race.

I don't even think thats a code to fool anyone listening. I think its just telling the driver which colour buttons to press. There's a lot going on in the car they need to keep things as simple as possible.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I wonder how demoralised Massa now feels, winning may well have bolstered his self confidence and provided a great performance improvement for the rest of the season (especially as it's one year since his accident). I feel Ferrari have shot themselves in the foot here, twice (once with the fans, once with Massa) - only Alonso can be happy about the result.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
Massa's and Alonso's lap times.

[Click image to view full size]
Thanks for this chart. What it tells me is that even Massa's talk in the post-podium press conference about having trouble at first with the hard tires relative to Alonso was rubbish. His times were consistently faster than Alonso's in the half dozen laps after he pitted! Poor Felipe. What a sham...

EDIT: Er... actually, Alonso's times weren't better than Massa's during the first few laps after Felipe pitted because Fernando was stuck directly behind his teammate! :embarrassed:
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

ouch i came in at the wrong time. LOL

Anyway i'd been thinking about the best sector times and how relevent it really is as information and came to the conclusion that providing the weather/track conditions were constant then a quick calculation of the best sector times compared against the fastest qualifying lap might give two indications. 1) how consistant the drivers are <gap> 2) just assuming that a hooked up lap The Lap which is the combined best sectors time how much closer to the lead car Gap if at all they would be.

PosQual PosDriverQ2Q3<Gap>The lapGap
11Sebastian Vettel1:14.2491:13.7910.0331:13.758
22Fernando Alonso1:14.0811:13.7930.0101:13.7830.025
34Mark Webber1:14.3401:14.3470.2141:14.1260.368
46Lewis Hamilton1:14.4881:14.5660.2361:14.2520.494
53Felipe Massa1:14.4781:14.2900.0191:14.2710.513
65Jenson Button1:14.7161:14.4270.0291:14.3980.640
78Rubens Barrichello1:14.6981:15.1090.0191:14.6790.921
87Robert Kubica1:14.8351:15.0790.1031:14.7320.974
910Nico Hulkenberg1:14.9431:15.3390.0381:14.9051.147
109Nico Rosberg1:15.0181:15.1790.0291:14.9891.231

as you can see only 4 drivers posted a faster Q3 time with lewis, Mark & Robert being greating than a tenth away in consistency.

Another thing to note 6 drivers started with a new engine for this race, looking at those that did could it possibly explain why they were doing better than normal in in either quali, race or both?

Sebastian Vettel
Felipe Massa
Fernando Alonso
Nico Hülkenberg
Bruno Senna
Pedro De La Rosa

I've only done this for those that made Q3 but i could expand it if people think it's relevant enough info that probably really should have been posted before the race.
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Michael Schumacher's woes in Germany continued after the race.

Police fined the seven time world champion €140 for breaking the 100kph speed limit on a German autobahn by 20kph, according to Bild am Sonntag newspaper.
Taken from an article on motorsport.com Schumacher disputes German road speeding charge

He was allegedly driving an elite rented Weismann sports car. Maybe he might have gotten away with it, if he drove a Mercedes, as he wasn't quick in the race! But maybe not, as Schumacher was fined €1000 by the FIA for exceeding the 60kph pitlane speed limit at Hockenheim on Friday by 4.1kph.

Schumacher denied the road speeding incident, but failed to turn up to the court hearing, so court costs were added to the fine.

Not a good weekend for Schumacher, then.... :)
 
Re: 2010 German GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

There are so many threads relating to Sunday's German Grand Prix that I really do not know where this post sits best. It is a link to a report in The Guardian, which requires the reader to go beyond its potentially inflammatory title: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... onso-massa

It's well written and quite well-balanced, in spite of its obvious 'opinion'.
 
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