Who will beat Whom - Cars 3 & 4

Who will beat whom?

  • One Point Either Way Lewis Hamilton

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
The 2 World Champion team of McLaren somehow came 58 points clear of Ferrari last year, so it is now their turn to decide who will beat whom.

Lewis Hamilton went into the last race last year with a chance of taking the crown for the third time in his 4 season career. He also won the McLaren inter-team battle on Brogan's scorechart much earlier than he did in the WDC. His team-mate Jenson Button stuck steadfastly to his gearbox for most of the year, and made better tactical calls than Lewis when they were to be made.

So your choice is the Stevenage Speedster, the Frome Flyer or the T.Mobile Fence. I hope you are spotting the pattern with my Fence sponsor choices.

I have to go with someone British with this one, so please no accusations of bias. The guy I go with may have some Grenadian ancestry as well, come to think of it. Lewis, of course.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

As much as I'm a fan of Jenson, I think in equal machinery, Lewis will eclipse him.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

My head and my heart are in total accord with this one. I have always derived immense joy from Jenson's driving and successes but Lewis's tenacious driving, huge talent and ethnicity all conspire to make him my very top tip, tip top, non-tintop McLaren driver! :D
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Lewis hasn't been beaten by a team mate yet and I can't see that changing next year.
 

McZiderRed

Champion Elect
Supporter
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Now that Jenson will have been in the team from the start (before the start of the season, if you see what I mean) he will not be coming to the car cold. He'll be coming to the 2011 McLaren all nice & warm, just like Lewis. The season will be started from an equally warm footing, both already with the team from the pre-start; i.e. from the previous season. Both starting from an equal footing... The question being, whose footing is more equal than the other?

My vote is for Jenson. :)
 

GeoffP

Thank you and good night
Contributor
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Afraid to say I'm still a Hamilton fan, and still think this is the onlt team that will let the driving talk, so my money's on Lewis
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Tough one, but I think Jenson will prove his team-mates fans wrong in their positions. Jenson, in a car that didn't 100% suit him, still managed to win 2 GPs before his team-mate had a look in. I will admit that Lewis may be very slightly quicker over a lap, but Jensons mature head will see that minor speed differential slashed and Lewis' impetuiveness cost him a few points over the season..
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

I like Jenson, he's a solid driver, has an air of the great British racers of old, a slight caddishness maybe, a la Hunt, Hill Snr and Chapman and seems to come across as a thoroughly nice chap.

But...........

I'd vote for Lewis every time and yes, before you ask, I am a Lewis/McLaren fanboi but there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics

And statistics don't lie (despite what car they are driving and how Brogan massages them)

Jenson - 9 wins, 31 podiums from 189 starts
Lewis - 14 wins - 36 podiums from 71 starts

One is a pilot of the car (as our european cousins would say) and one is a driver of the car.

oooh I've gone all 6o6 but, in my defence, I was working last night so tonight was nye for me.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

One comment on your stats, Speshal. Lewis walked straight into a competitive car. Jenson has only had a competitive car for the last two seasons he's raced in F1, but has been racing for over twice as long. Don't forget, he jumped into a new car and two out of his first four races with the team, winning twice before Lewis even won once (it took Lewis until the 7th race, despite driving a car that he would have had all last year to contribute towards the design of).
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Speshal said:
And statistics don't lie (despite what car they are driving and how Brogan massages them)
Lol stats tend to be the biggest liars of them all XD, perhaps apart from ferrari :p

Again i think this is a tough one to call. Two very different styles and drivers who can benifit from different situations. there are going to be days when 1 or the other are going to have complete advantage.

But i think Hamilton though only by a whisker if Button can sort his quali problems out. I think he has a little bit of magic Button doesn't. Think Buttons always going to be the guy who there quietly picking up points while Hamilton will have the odd skirmish but days has well where he makes the rest of the grid look stupid. Also i think if there weekends where the mclaren doesn't handle well or has off weekends Hamilton is more likly to drag the car to a good result.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Speshal said:
And statistics don't lie (despite what car they are driving and how Brogan massages them)
Huh? :s

When have I ever massaged stat's?
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Fat Jez said:

Lewis walked straight into a competitive car
I was thinking about this the other day. I can only think of two drivers who have started F1 in "competitive" cars - Jim Clark and Michael Schumacher. Clark didn't win a race for two seasons (Moss won for Lotus in 60 and 61, albeit in the Rob Walker entered cars) and Schumie won on the anniversary of his debut at Spa in 1992.

Whatever way you look at it, regardless of what car he started in, Lewis has always out performed the car by some margin and I don't understand why people are strung up on the fact he didn't "serve an apprenticeship". I think he has proven he was good enough to deserve the seat at Mclaren.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

FB said:
Whatever way you look at it, regardless of what car he started in, Lewis has always out performed the car by some margin and I don't understand why people are strung up on the fact he didn't "serve an apprenticeship". I think he has proven he was good enough to deserve the seat at Mclaren.
I'm not denying his talent, but compared to the first 7 or 8 years that Jenson drove in F1, Lewis had a competitive car from the word go. It wasn't until the Brawn car that Jenson had a car he was consistently competitive with, not withstanding the one year when Honda finished 2nd in the WCC. Just pointing out that to compare Jenson and Lewis's stats over the careers is comparing apples with oranges. You can only really compare them while they've had the same machinery.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

FB said:
I don't understand why people are strung up on the fact he didn't "serve an apprenticeship".
It is to compare Mr. Hamilton with one driver who, although marked out for a seat at Renault from a young age, "served an apprenticeship" at Minardi. That is why the comparison came up.

McLaren invested a lot of money and a lot of years in Lewis Hamilton, and it is their right to pick their own drivers without demanding that they first race with some backmarkers.

Also, remember another driver who came into F1 with a competitive car, Jacques Villeneuve. At the end of 2008, Hamilton's career mirrored Villeneuve's: lost the championship 1st year, won it in the 2nd. But Villeneuve was unable to do anything with a struggling Williams in 1998 and never came back to the front. Hamilton struggled in the first half of 2009, but there were still excellent drives in Bahrain and Australia, for example.

However, when you look at his form in the second half of that year, you have to conclude he way outperformed the car which was still probably worse than the Red Bull and Brawn at most circuits.

It is also bonkers to suggest that because he had a top car, it was easy for Hamilton in his first season. Remember he had to, having not driven an F1 car in a race before, match Fernando Alonso, World Champion in the last two years. That is the most difficult apprenticeship ever. How many drivers survive a debut season with a top quality driver in the other car? Ask Johnny Dumfries, Michael Andretti, Nelsinho Piquet, Hector Rebaque or Dave Walker, for example!

Although I don't want to praise Hamilton too highly, he does have his faults, I'm afraid there is a significant element of smokescreen about those kind of criticisms.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

Brogan said:
Speshal said:
And statistics don't lie (despite what car they are driving and how Brogan massages them)
Huh? :s

When have I ever massaged stat's?
This is what we "normals" call a "joke" ;)

LOL


teabagyokel said:
It is also bonkers to suggest that because he had a top car, it was easy for Hamilton in his first season. Remember he had to, having not driven an F1 car in a race before, match Fernando Alonso, World Champion in the last two years. That is the most difficult apprenticeship ever. How many drivers survive a debut season with a top quality driver in the other car? Ask Johnny Dumfries, Michael Andretti, Nelsinho Piquet, Hector Rebaque or Dave Walker, for example!

Although I don't want to praise Hamilton too highly, he does have his faults, I'm afraid there is a significant element of smokescreen about those kind of criticisms.
This is what I was trying to say, but without the eloquence of TBY :D
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

While for me Button did much better than expected last year, I still think that Lewis has the all round edge that will see him out perform his team mate again this season so for me it's got to be Hamilton.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Re: Who will beat Whom - Cars 3&4

I think that it will be closer between the two than it was this year. Button will have some input into the design which he obviously did not have last year due to time constraints. Plus, I think the engineers will be more able to develop the car to suit him than they were last year, because they are now familiar with what he likes and what enables him to go faster. Their store of knowledge along those lines for Hamilton were obviously far greater last season, and, I believe, accounts for Lewis getting stronger relative to Button as the season progressed.

FB- People keep claiming that Lewis "outperforms" his cars, but I see little to no evidence of that. Indeed, I don't believe that ANY driver can outperform his car in todays' world of Formula 1. The McLaren has never been worse than 3rd best anywhere, and has been 2nd best or even best of all, depending on the circuit. The same can be said for the other two top teams, although RBR was usually the best. I also would hardly rate the Jordan that Schumacher debuted in as being competitive.

All that being said, and while I think that Lewis has more raw talent (being one of the top 3) than Button, I think that Jenson will exceed most people's expectations and finish higher than Lewis this coming season.
 
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