Which Fuel and Tyre Format was best?

[Tarod]

No Fuel stop, just tyres, like now and in the 80's and early 90's.
Pirelli did a mistake in Bahrein choosing the Medium compound instead of the Harder one. I think they should aim for 2 stopper strategies for every races, maybe some races there will be drivers on 1 stop or 3 stops but not the majority.

 

[johnnoble1990]

I'm caught between no fuel and fuel. For a start, I don't think refuelling was to blame for the boring races we had pre-2010. It is hard to know the effect that DRS would have on refuelling races. I think the multi-stop race system is more exciting as we get different strategies playing out, and different phases of the race. I'd say we are best off enjoying it as it is for now. I have no doubt if we went back to the 200x system we'd have far more complaints.

 

[johnnoble1990]

P.S. I voted in wrong category by accident. Meant to click no fuel stops.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Even with your click mistake it is still 50/50

 

[johnnoble1990]

It should be 8-7 to no fuel though. I've upset the balance.

 

[Mezzer]

I don't have a problem with fuel stops, I also don't have a problem with tyre stops (other than the fact that IMO they seem to be wearing too quickly nowadays) and the amount of crud off the racing line presumably has some impact on the ability to overtake.

 

[McZiderRed]

I've voted for no fuel stops.

The tyres might be a little bit too "weary" though. Get rid of the marbles to promote overtaking.

 

[mjo]

tooncheese
Stupid YouTube... I'lll try and get another video.

 

[gethinceri]

Fuel as often as you like, use as many tyres as you like in the race, whichever type whenever you want and allow super sticky qualifying tyres.
And those Ben Hur hubs.

 

[The Pits]

I have to say, I have not voted, as being honest I have enjoyed the racing, and certainly the different aspects that the various rules have introduced and watching the teams and the drivers adapting to the changes.

I loved watching the fuel stop races, working out how the strategies were going to play out, especially towards the end. I love the current regs, I struggled a little in 2010, although the new regs do need time to bed in.

The only thing I am not too keen on is domination by one driver/Team, and I do not think that this is in any way related to the regulation specifically, and hence cannot really be covered in this thread.

 

[Slyboogy]

Remember two small, but very important facts from the fuel stop era.

1. cars were slower after the stop as they were heavier
2. instead of saving tyres, they saved fuel to eke out an extra lap

ie. there was no undercut in the fuel stop era - quite the opposite. You put off stopping as long as your fuel load would allow it and tried to gain a position by going a lap longer. Once you had stopped, you were 2s a lap slower (fresh rubber made more than outweighed by the extra weight).

All the overtaking happened while someone was in the pits.

Now, you are much faster after a stop by perhaps 2s. When you come out of the pits you can use your fresher tyres to overtake on the track .

Well cars aren't going to get lighter when you put more fuel in them!

Now they save tyres and fuel, instead of just fuel!

The undercut was very much possible, although hard to achieve, it was miraculous to watch, I remember several drivers doing it, Mr.Chin (Schumacher) being one of the best at it.

Another point, if you had Pirelli tyres, KERS and the DRS when there was refuelling, I bet it wouldn't be processional at all.

Remember there were just as many processional races in 2010 as there where in 2008, why am I comparing 2010 with 2008 and not 2009 with 2010? And not 2009 with 2011? Both seasons KERS wasn't used, both had the similar amount of wet races, both were exciting seasons, the only main difference between the two seasons was, refuelling and no refuelling.

 

[Wombcat]

How about no refuelling and using the same tyres to the end of the race? Has this ever been done?

I remember Boutsen winning in Hungary that way.

And before 1982 it was common practice.

 

[Jen]

Thank you, Wombcat - I had thought this was the case in the past, but am never certain that my memory is accurate enough to be too emphatic.

 

[Wombcat]

Actually even in 1982 all races were won without pitstops. That year Brabham started experimenting with fuel and tyrestops, but it didn't work out yet due to poor reliability and Eliseo Salazar.

And I think that in 1986 and 1987 some wins were without tyrestops.

 

[jez101]

We are not agreeing much on this are we, Slyboogy

• 1984 (41.6) : Refuelling prohibited.
• 1994 (18.1) : Mid race refuelling permitted.
• 2003 (18.9) : Refuelling between final qualifying and race start prohibited.
• 2005 (10.7) : Tyre changes restricted.
• 2006 (15.9) : Tyre changes permitted.
• 2010 (28.8) : Refuelling during the race is abolished.

In 1993, there were 26.36 overtakes per dry GP
In 1994, there were 18.87 overtakes per dry GP - the record for the refuelling era

No year between 1995 and 2009 were there more than 15.43 overtakes per dry GP

In 2009, there were 10.4 overtakes per dry GP
In 2010, there were 21.33 overtakes per dry GP

Then Pirelli & DRS comes along and it goes up to 59.06 in 2011 and we are currently at 66.67 for this year.

The lowest 15 years for overtakes were all 15 years where refuelling was allowed.

If you want more than 19 overtakes per dry GP, you have to ban refuelling. Not my opinion - just what the data says.

 

[jez101]

If that is not enough, one more point: 2005 where tyre changes were restricted saw the record low overtakes per dry GP.

 

[Slyboogy]

jez101

Several overtakes don't neccessarily make a race, infact it can ruin them, several in 2011 where ruined by so many overtakes, e.g. China, Turkey etc.

2009 was one of the worst years for overtaking in history for many reasons, I find the comparisons for that season to 2010 unfair, I've already commented why.

I have seen that you have also compared 93 with 94. Fair do's.

The "overtakes" for where refuelling was prohibited, is also a bit misleading, as you get a fair few cars that are on tyres that fade away, therefore are likely to get passed, and it has happened in many occasions from 2010 onwards, and I'm sure it happened in many occasions in 1993 aswell.

Another thing I forgot to add, is from 2010 onwards there are new teams in, so another racing why the statistics are sort of skewed in favour of ban on refuelling.

I could be just nit-picking here, but I do feel the points that I'm making are somewhat valid, and are overlooked by many.

 

[jez101]

the points are making are somewhat valid

Always valid - that's why I am picking on you in my replies, because you have argued the case very well.

I don't think it matters which seasons you compare though - the bottom line is that there is less overtaking in each of the 15 seasons with refuelling than in any other season before or since (whatever other rules, tyres, toys etc are available).

 

[Slyboogy]

jez101

I don't want to go around in circles.

But the overtaking is skewed for no refuelling, and i'm right and you're wrong.

Just playing, I just think refuelling doesn't have much justice going it's way for the reasons I've posted, and like I've said before, if it has the current tyres, tools, regulations (bar no refuelliing) it will just be as exciting as it currently is.

I'm a fan of both by the way

 

[tooncheese]

I'll not vote but say teams should have free choice to choose which ever they think is fastest. If they want to do a Berger '86 Mexico, go ahead! If they want 6 stops on super stick tyres, why not!