VW to enter F1

[FB]

VW have plans to enter F1 as an engine supplier in 2012 according to their representative Hans-Joachim Stuck. Their interest is encouraged by the FIA's "World Engine" plan.

VW

For those that missed it, here's Max's hair brained plan...

World Engine

 

[Brogan]

As far as I'm aware, VW don't currently have engines in F1, F2 or Rally do they?

What makes them think they would be able to produce successful, reliable engines for all of these series without any previous knowledge or background?

 

[fedupwithuserids]

Are Porsche and Seat not part of VW ?

Could well be wrong, so please don't SHOUT.

 

[FB]

Seat are part of VW group, as are Audi, Skoda, Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti (they still own the Auto Union and NSU names but don't use them). Porsche, although the smaller company, owns more than 50% of VW shares which should eventually lead to a merger between the two companies. One potential fly in the ointment is Porsche have borrowed money from the Middle East to fund their share purchase in VW and I think we all know of the problems there at the moment.

In terms of motor sport, VW go rallying with Skoda, run Seat cars in the WTCC and Audi in the DTM, supply engines in a couple of F3 series and, of course, run diesel cars in the Le Man series. I'm not sure whether any of this qualifies them to make F1 engines, perhaps they will use the Lambo or Bugatti names but if they are after publicity I would presume they would use the VW brand. One problem with all of this of course is would Ferrari, Mercedes or Renault want to run in F1 with an engine not made by them, some how I think not.

 

[teabagyokel]

If we ignore the "World Engine" , then VW's involvement is long overdue, and I can't see why they'd want a VW subsidary like Bentley, Seat, Skoda... to get the credit!

 

[cider_and_toast]

The "World Engine" thing is just a re-hash of what Cosworth did with the DFV anyway. It's nothing new.

DFVs powered F1 cars and some sports cars while a "son of" DFV was used in Indy racing and also powered Formula 3000. To cap it all, at Goodwood a few years ago I saw a rally car with a DFV shoe horned into the boot!!

Plus there was a time when Ferrari, Matra, Ford, Lotus, Brabham, Cooper etc etc would build and enter all forms of motor racing.

This sort of variation and re-use of bits would be good for the sport but why does it always have to come with a development freeze? That's my issue with it. There should be scope for competition otherwise what's the point? It wouldn't matter if you bought a Ferrari or a V-Dub if it's only capable of the same speed/power output and capable of lasting for the number of running hours.

 

[fedupwithuserids]

Bro said :

As far as I'm aware, VW don't currently have engines in F1, F2 or Rally do they?

VW prepare to defend Dakar title.

http://uk.autoblog.com/2009/12/20/vw-prepares-for-dakar/

 

[bogaTYR]

Seat are part of VW group, as are Audi, Skoda, Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti (they still own the Auto Union and NSU names but don't use them).

Its a wee bit more complicated then that, FB, in the thirties DKW, Audi, Horch and Wanderer became Auto Union which had as logo the famous four rings, basically showing the brand was made up of four companies. then Auto Union was sold to Mercedes, just after WO II methinks. Somewhere in the 1960-ies VW wanted to buy Auto Union, lots of lalala, and the first Auto Union under VW was really a Mercedes although it was sold under the Audi name. Then NSU joined Auto Union and added their pay off to the company. that was the famous "Vorsprung durch Technik" and used to this day. ther company then was called Audi NSU Auto-Union A.G. which somewhere in the 1980-ies became Audi AG. So the Audi logo is from Auto Union and the pay off from NSU.

Auto Union has a huge racing pedigree, including F1 as does Bentley and Bugatti. So VW can chose from a whole list of names to give to a racing team. but to see Auto Union return would be amazing really.

stranger teams had F racing cars, this is the one that always brings a smile to my face: http://www.classic-daf.nl/history/pic_f3.html

I am slow today, forgot to add this And of course, in the UK we have this http://www.vw-cup.co.uk/ so VW is a racing brand as well.

 

[fedupwithuserids]

The older porsche engines (60-70s) are meant to be a near perfect fit for the old style VW Bettle.

Turbocharged Bettle, certainly wolf in sheeps clothing. I can remember being out dragged by one on a roundabout nr Newark about 20 years ago, not sure what engine it had in but it was certainly turbocharged.

 

[bogaTYR]

ehhhh... the VW beetle was designed by ferdinand porsche. no wonder the two look alot alike.

 

[FB]

Thanks for the history Boga, I didn't realise where the 4 rings came from. I think VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) morphed in VW simply to keep the shareholders happy - it's a shame when famous names just disappear.

BTW, if any of you fancy seeing some super speedy Beetles I can recommend York Raceway. Follow the link to a Beetle pulling a wheelie...

http://cliptheapex.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=673&p=5541&hilit=dragster#p5541

as an aside, anyone else remember the NSU RO80? The first production care with a Wankel engine - hugely advanced for it's time but, unforunately, unreliable due to the tips of the rotor wearing out.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I'm sorry, Maybe it's the big kid in me but I can't help reading the NSU name and chuckling.

Great names that mean something else in another country. Almost as bad as the infamous Toyota MR2 / France mix up.

 

[bogaTYR]

thanks for that pic FB, did you notice that this triangle shaped window at the back of the passenger door is still used in most audis?

oh yes, i remember the 80, very advanced for its day. but that wasn't the only beauty NSU made with a Wankel engine. what about this thing? a true wankel spider!

NSU made some amazing cars bro, its just not too well known. this car, the NSU Spider, actually was the first wankel driven car to win an officially sanctioned race the USA in 1966 for Sports Car Club of America. big problems though cos in which class do you put a wankel engine?

so back on topic... even NSU has a racing history!

 

[Speshal]

I'm sorry, Maybe it's the big kid in me but I can't help reading the NSU name and chuckling.

I'm sorry, Maybe it's the big kid in me but I can't help reading the Wankle name and chuckling.

 

[bogaTYR]

I'm sorry, Maybe it's the big kid in me but I can't help reading the Wankle name and chuckling.

tststs.... one le mans winning car in 1991 shown below! the only le mans winner ever without pistons! yes, a wankel engine. 4 rotors to be precise.

and don't forget the mazda RX7, winning the 24 hours of daytona in its class 10 years in a row and winning more then 100 IMSA races, more then any other car ever. and yes, that is a wankel too

and to come back onto topic... quite a few VW's to this day use wankel engines. not to drive but as a part of the seat belt mechanism that when it notices a crash, fires tiny explosives which gasses feed tiny wankel engines who rotate and tighten the slack from the seat belts.

 

[FB]

Sport Bild are reporting Frank Williams is planning to sell a share of his team to VW. Watch this space.

 

[teabagyokel]

yes, a wankel engine

Wasn't that bad...