Vettel's overtake on Button in Australia

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
I'm not sure whether this has been discussed anywhere here or not but what is everyone's opinion on this?

I understand (but unfortunately have no definitive source) that the drivers agreed that they could run wide at the turn where the overtake took place provided 'no advantage was gained’.

Quite obviously, Vettel had a massive speed advantage going into the turn and completing the overtake on Button fractionally prior to, or he wouldn't have run massively wide on the exit. From memory, he was all four wheels plus a whole car width over the line.

Ordinarily, Vettel would have been penalised by the stewards for the transgression and I think the whole 'as long as no advantage is gained' caveat could be argued about ad-infinitum without any agreement from opposing sides.

So…My opinion?

Vettel gained an advantage to make the move stick and shortened what may have been a very entertaining battle on the track.

What would I rather?

Just keep the wheels within the defined limits of the circuit during normal racing (as per the rules) and get rid of the silly exceptions such as the one above.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I don't think it was a particularly egregious offense. Precedent is that usually, going past the white/yellow lines on a straight is not generally frowned upon, and frankly, it disadvantages you to be out there.
 

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
I don't think it was a particularly egregious offense. Precedent is that usually, going past the white/yellow lines on a straight is not generally frowned upon, and frankly, it disadvantages you to be out there.
Vettel most certainly did not suffer any disadvantage whatsoever by being out there!!
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
If there had been a gravel trap/wall then Vettel would have had to abort the overtake or try to pass Button on the left, which most certainly would have failed.

Without doubt going off the circuit is what enabled the pass to be made.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
If you can gain an advantage by driving further, then frankly good luck to you!

No punishment for SV, no punishment for SB = All is consistent.
 

Andyoak

Race Winner
I'm for the no exceptions school and would like to see a physical deterant to going off the circuit (gravel, barriers etc).
Irrespective of the rights or wrongs (OK, I think it was wrong) the overtake had no ecitement or drama because he was allowed to do it without fighting for position ON THE TRACK... overtaking per se is not exciting; the battle to overtake is where the enjoyment is for both the driver and spectator.
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
I think both Vettel and Buemi should have been penalised for the move as they were no longer on the circuit. Brundle raised the pioint in commentary and Coulthard had no answer when the inconsistency of his arguments were pointed out to him. Quite clearly both gained an advantage fromt he slingshot effect off the previous corner, therefore a drive through penalty should have applied, same as was given to Button for going off the circuit to complete a move.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Watching it at the time I never even considered the possibility of them being penalised, until DC raised it.

If the law is supposed to treat Vettel and Buemi's moves the same as Button's, then the law is an ass.

I'd just move the white line, myself.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Section 20 (page 8) of http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/9A195FD4A47DA4E1C12577F8004AA63E/$FILE/1-2011 SPORTING REGULATIONS 10-12-2010.pdf

20.3 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

Should a car leave the track for any reason the driver may rejoin. However, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I know, Bro, I know, I'm just giving you my gut instincts. I see a lot of shades of grey with this rule.

The stewards need to apply the rules, yes, and do so consistently, of course. But they also need to have a sense of proportion. Otherwise why are the ex-drivers there?
 

snowy

Champion Elect
We could debate this ad nauseum, I just want to say that up until that point I had given David Coulthard the benefit of the doubt about his Red Bull bias. It is now profoundly clear to me that he is not actually fit for the job he is doing as he is completely blind to any possibility of an infraction or error concerning Red Bull.

The other point I'd like to make is that when Lewis gets his next vindictive, totally unjust and loathsomely petty penalty for overtaking someone, I will be so bloody annoyed and vexed as to be unapproachable for at least one month. You have been warned FIA. >:(

Rant over.
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
If you can gain an advantage by driving further, then frankly good luck to you!

No punishment for SV, no punishment for SB = All is consistent.
The thing is though, Vettel obviously knew that he was going to wind up on the outside, so it makes sense to go off track. By taking a longer, wider apex, safe in the knowledge that there was tarmac on the outside, it allowed him to carry more speed into the corner in the first place. Button, taking the inside line, was always going to be compromised when he got on the power because of the tighter apex he was taking. Vettel with more room to accelerate into was able to apply power quicker than Button who would have to compromise.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Khronicle/CTA.jpg

See? I even did a little picture. Ahem.
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
Here's my take on what happened with the rulings.

Vettel was fully outside the line, but at a spot on the circuit where it is not that unusual for someone to be. By definition it should have garnered a penalty, but penalizing that maneuver would have discouraged something you're trying to embrace more than ever, overtaking. Personally, I thought it was Jenson's fault for even giving him an opportunity to have a go there, and a penalty was unnecessary.

.......And then Buemi takes it just a little further. The overtake was not nearly as complete as Vettel's was when he left the circuit, and he also left the track earlier. I think that this one was more worthy of a penalty than Vettel's, but by the rulebook there is no difference at all in what Seb V and Seb B did.

So because the Stewards let Vettel's slightly less egregious off course excursion go without penalty, they had no choice but to let Buemi slide as well. Imagine the howls if Boomer got a drive through for his move while Vettel got away scot-free.
 
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