Who mentioned FIFA? I'll Blatter them!
Mods, its a joke based on the hilarious name of the FIFA President and should not be construed as a threat to any posters on this site.
The reliable Charlie Whiting
- Thread starter Hamberg
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Who mentioned FIFA? I'll Blatter them!
Mods, its a joke based on the hilarious name of the FIFA President and should not be construed as a threat to any posters on this site.
This has become a stock answer for Team Principals. In response to (fill in the blank) reporters question, "Well, we were talking to Charlie."
I guess it sounds better than, "Well, we were just hoping that nobody would notice and we might get away with it."
I guess it sounds better than, "Well, we were just hoping that nobody would notice and we might get away with it."
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Button's move and not giving back the position was fair. In fact, I actually agree that he should have done and just tried again afterwards but most team principals (who are worth their salt) would ask the question. If you do ask a question and someone says they will get back to you, then do you not expect them to do so?
Even if you are trying to 'get away with it', as it were; if someone says they'll come back to you, they should!
I firmly stand by the other point though - the application of the rules regarding overtaking in that race were all over the shop.
Who mentioned FIFA? I'll Blatter them!
Mods, its a joke based on the hilarious name of the FIFA President and should not be construed as a threat to any posters on this site.
Its true though, isn't it! There is probably far far less bureaucracy, inconsistency, foul play, cheating, fixing etc in F1.
Even at international level, our exit from the World Cup was/ ah ill just shut up
Yes, and it is amazing that Charlie (or whoever they talked to) didn't just laugh and say, "Martin, we haven't resorted to Bernie's ill-conceived shortcut scheme yet. The position(s) must be ceded back."
If Whitmarsh was really telling the truth, and he didn't see this in real-time, then Alonso was setting up Massa by the time poor old Marty even realized what happened. He then proceeded to try and find a way out of this bind by pleading ignorance to the Race Director, who clearly didn't want to hear it.
On the BBC feed, MW was interviewed right after the race and he started defending the decision to wait for CW, and Jake said something like... 'couldn't you see he should have conceded the place?' He began explaining again and was shown the feed, he then changed his plea as he watched it. It sounded to me as though this was the first time he had seen the action by his reaction to it.
As far as I'm aware, Martin said he took Jenson at his word when he stated that he was ahead of Massa when to took to the escape road.
I saw the footage on the world feed and the teams have access to it so it's surprising that Martin didn't see it.
Although it did look a lot clearer in the slo-mo played after the race, it wasn't as clear cut as Jenson was trying to make out.
Ultimately though, the team should have made him give the place back as Jenson obviously wasn't going to on his own.
I saw the footage on the world feed and the teams have access to it so it's surprising that Martin didn't see it.
Although it did look a lot clearer in the slo-mo played after the race, it wasn't as clear cut as Jenson was trying to make out.
Ultimately though, the team should have made him give the place back as Jenson obviously wasn't going to on his own.
Events can unfold at such a pace during a Grand Prix that Martin Whitmarsh should have known better than to wait for a response from Mr Whiting, especially with the proximity of Alonso. How was MW to know what else Charlie had on his plate at that moment?
Even when Alonso, having passed Massa, then headed into the pits, thereby handing Button another opportunity to let Massa past, he still refused to take it.
Even when Alonso, having passed Massa, then headed into the pits, thereby handing Button another opportunity to let Massa past, he still refused to take it.
I find the idea that McLaren aren't watching the world feed difficult to believe, unless they have specially trained McLarencams which would have still seen the incident. Can't pull a Wenger, sorry!
With regard to putting all four wheels over the white line, either to the inside or the outside, several drivers at yesterday's BTCC meeting at Brands Hatch were given black & white warning flags for it, predominantly at Paddock Hill Bend and Graham Hill Bend. The commentators made a number of references to the apparent rule of thumb that more than three transgressions would be likely to attract a penalty.
But it seemed to me that a lot of drivers were putting all four wheels off the track repeatedly, and despite the flags that were handed out I can't recall any driver actually being given a penalty.
On a related subject, Max Biaggi was given a ride-through penalty for a jump start in the WSB race at Donington. He failed to carry out the penalty and was duly shown the black flag. Although he obviously should have obeyed the initial penalty (maybe he argued that he never saw the signal), I can feel a certain sympathy for him as it was quite clear on the replay that although he did move quite sharply (about a foot forwards) before he should have, he also managed to completely stop again before the lights actually changed. If that happens in F1, doesn't it mean that a penalty is avoided? I seem to remember this happening to Vettel in the past.
But it seemed to me that a lot of drivers were putting all four wheels off the track repeatedly, and despite the flags that were handed out I can't recall any driver actually being given a penalty.
On a related subject, Max Biaggi was given a ride-through penalty for a jump start in the WSB race at Donington. He failed to carry out the penalty and was duly shown the black flag. Although he obviously should have obeyed the initial penalty (maybe he argued that he never saw the signal), I can feel a certain sympathy for him as it was quite clear on the replay that although he did move quite sharply (about a foot forwards) before he should have, he also managed to completely stop again before the lights actually changed. If that happens in F1, doesn't it mean that a penalty is avoided? I seem to remember this happening to Vettel in the past.
snowy
Champion Elect
That kind of false start isn't usually ignored in F1 but in Vettel's case it was.
Max Biaggi has a long history of ignoring drive through penalties and black flags. He did it in 250s and 500s, he totally confounded Mick Doohan in Catalunya 1998, even celebrating the win with wheely and a victory lap! It's a classic.
Max Biaggi has a long history of ignoring drive through penalties and black flags. He did it in 250s and 500s, he totally confounded Mick Doohan in Catalunya 1998, even celebrating the win with wheely and a victory lap! It's a classic.
I don't think I've ever seen that penalised...
All the jump starts which have been awarded penalties.
I'll let someone else study the video footage to see if any of them involved someone doing a start-stop-start.
I'll let someone else study the video footage to see if any of them involved someone doing a start-stop-start.
1976 Swedish GP Mario Andretti was given a 1 minute time penalty for jumping the start
1978 Italian GP Mario Andretti finished 1st but was given a 1 minute time penalty for jumping the start
1978 Italian GP Gilles Villeneuve finished 2nd but was given a 1 minute time penalty for jumping the start
1979 British GP Elio de Angelis was given a 1 minute time penalty for jumping the start
1980 Canadian GP Didier Pironi finished 1st but was given a 1 minute time penalty for jumping the restart
1985 Canadian GP Jacques Laffite was given a 1 minute time penalty for jumping the start
1990 Canadian GP Gerhard Berger finished 1st but was given a 1 minute time penalty for jumping the start
1993 Monaco GP Alain Prost was given a stop-go penalty for jumping the start
1995 Monaco GP Andrea Montermini was disqualified for failing to serve a stop-go penalty in time due to jumping the start
1995 German GP Gerhard Berger was given a stop-go penalty for jumping the start
1995 Japanese GP Jean Alesi and Gerhard Berger were given stop-go penalties for jumping the start
2000 United States GP David Coulthard and Giancarlo Fisichella were given stop-go penalties for jumping the start
2000 Malaysian GP Mika Häkkinen was given a stop-go penalty for jumping the start
2003 Australian GP Rubens Barrichello was given a drive-through penalty for jumping the start
2007 Brazilian GP Rubens Barrichello was given a drive-through penalty for jumping the start
2010 Chinese GP Fernando Alonso was given a drive-through penalty for jumping the start
2010 Canadian GP Vitaly Petrov was given a drive-through penalty for jumping the start
Right, there's my evening gone then.
Here's the video of Seb's slight wobble at Japan last year. There isn't much movement there.
The 1978 Italy start can be seen in a number of YouTube videos. This one has the start crash edited out, but clearly shows how much Villeneuve and Andretti jumped the start.
Rolling starts, start-stop-starts, and jump starts were very common throughout the 70's and early 80's from the footage I've seen. They obviously didn't have the benefit of sensors and other high-tech equipment to monitor these things, but I would say they were very lenient when it came to calling jump starts throughout this period.
One of the best examples is from France 1984. No penalties here?
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