Cheers for clearing that up, so Fernandes buying Team Lotus kicked all this off?JuR3 said:
The Lotus Question
- Thread starter cider_and_toast
- Start date
No, I think it's a lot more complicated than that. I think this has been going on for a while and is more to do with politics back in Malaysia.
The thing I can't understand at the moment is where exactly Group Lotus think they are going to get all the money from to do all the things they are planning.
Take one example that Lotus have announced. They intend to build and race an LMP1 car for the 2012 Le Mans 24hr Race. That's all well and good but it cost Audi 165million pounds to build a car that was competative enought to compete in that class. That is just one programme that Lotus intend to start. By 2012 they are looking at owning and running the whole of the former Renault F1 team, Running and Indy car team while building aero kits and their own Indy Engine for other teams. Launching 6 new Lotus car models on to the market and Running a GP2 team, Running the Evora in GT4 and eventually in the Le Mans GT classes.
Sorry, but there is no way on this earth or any other (as much as I would love it) that Lotus have the money to do all that. Proton have made a loss in two of the last 4 years so they are not really in a position to bank roll all of this and I don't think there is any one who can remember the last time that Lotus turned a decent profit.
After having a good look around the net there seems to be a school of thought that this is an effort by Proton to rebuild the Lotus brand image to prepare the company for a sell off some time in the next couple of years.
The thing I can't understand at the moment is where exactly Group Lotus think they are going to get all the money from to do all the things they are planning.
Take one example that Lotus have announced. They intend to build and race an LMP1 car for the 2012 Le Mans 24hr Race. That's all well and good but it cost Audi 165million pounds to build a car that was competative enought to compete in that class. That is just one programme that Lotus intend to start. By 2012 they are looking at owning and running the whole of the former Renault F1 team, Running and Indy car team while building aero kits and their own Indy Engine for other teams. Launching 6 new Lotus car models on to the market and Running a GP2 team, Running the Evora in GT4 and eventually in the Le Mans GT classes.
Sorry, but there is no way on this earth or any other (as much as I would love it) that Lotus have the money to do all that. Proton have made a loss in two of the last 4 years so they are not really in a position to bank roll all of this and I don't think there is any one who can remember the last time that Lotus turned a decent profit.
After having a good look around the net there seems to be a school of thought that this is an effort by Proton to rebuild the Lotus brand image to prepare the company for a sell off some time in the next couple of years.
Most companies rarely use their own money for expansion plans.They find investors or venture capital.
Try This guy.That will answer many questions about financing.
Genii Capital directors are Gerard Lopez, Eric Lux and Romain Bontemps.
http://www.genii-capital.com/Genii-Capi ... alues.html
http://www.mangrove-vc.com/p/team.html
He is also chairman of Lotus Renault GP.
Try This guy.That will answer many questions about financing.
Genii Capital directors are Gerard Lopez, Eric Lux and Romain Bontemps.
http://www.genii-capital.com/Genii-Capi ... alues.html
http://www.mangrove-vc.com/p/team.html
He is also chairman of Lotus Renault GP.
That's normally the case but Genii Capital can't exactly be that well off because Renault had to apply for two loans last season in order to pay their bills.
Plus Genii are involved in the F1 side of things but I can't see them having the will to fund all of Lotus' ventures in to motorsport.
Plus Genii are involved in the F1 side of things but I can't see them having the will to fund all of Lotus' ventures in to motorsport.
And Mangrove.This is worth a read as well.
http://www.proton.com/Corporate/Investo ... Finan.aspx
http://www.proton.com/Corporate/Investo ... Finan.aspx
Lotus row can avoid court
Now Bahar's approach seems to be softening a little. It would seem that after claiming a breach of contract and a number of other reasons for the breakdown of relationships between Group Lotus and 1Malaysia it would now seem that it was all about "A different vision for the future" that wasn't the fault of "Mr Fernandes".
What's the bets that before the too long it will all end in hugs and love between the two warring factions.
Now Bahar's approach seems to be softening a little. It would seem that after claiming a breach of contract and a number of other reasons for the breakdown of relationships between Group Lotus and 1Malaysia it would now seem that it was all about "A different vision for the future" that wasn't the fault of "Mr Fernandes".
What's the bets that before the too long it will all end in hugs and love between the two warring factions.
And I wonder what is the ulterior motive behind this 'softening'. Could it be that Bahar has realised that his company has no case against Fernandes' Team Lotus?
And if they do settle out of court, will there still be two 'Lotus' teams on the grid?
Maybe the courts should rule that neither team has a right to the name as they have perverted the memory of one of the greatest ever teams in the search for sponsor cash and publicity.
Team Lotus would revert back to 1Malaysia Racing and Renault would either keep the same name or become Proton-Renault.
Team Lotus would revert back to 1Malaysia Racing and Renault would either keep the same name or become Proton-Renault.
"The legal battle over the use of the Lotus name in Formula 1 is to hit the courts much earlier than originally anticipated - with the car company's bid for a summary judgement to be heard next week.
It had been expected that the legal row between Group Lotus and Team Lotus would not be in court until the early summer.
But Group Lotus is seeking a summary judgement on the main legal issues – that its early termination of its licencing deal with Lotus Racing was a breach of contract and over whether Team Lotus is allowed to use the name in Formula 1 this year.
The matter is set to be heard in the London courts on January 24."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88968
It had been expected that the legal row between Group Lotus and Team Lotus would not be in court until the early summer.
But Group Lotus is seeking a summary judgement on the main legal issues – that its early termination of its licencing deal with Lotus Racing was a breach of contract and over whether Team Lotus is allowed to use the name in Formula 1 this year.
The matter is set to be heard in the London courts on January 24."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88968
I think Group Lotus have pretty much known the situation about the Team Lotus name for some time, having lost two previous attempts in the courts in the last 16 years to bring the name back under the control of the company. At least this will sort the whole situation out (or maybe not knowing F1).
I don't think F1 has much to do with it.This is a court of law.
The names and adressess are from Companies House
GROUP LOTUS PLC
POTASH LANE
HETHEL NORWICH
NORFOLK
NR14 8EZ
Company No. 00606189
Name & Registered Office:
TEAM LOTUS LIMITED
HETHEL INDUSTRIAL ESTATE
POTASH LANE HETHEL WYMONDHAM
The names and adressess are from Companies House
GROUP LOTUS PLC
POTASH LANE
HETHEL NORWICH
NORFOLK
NR14 8EZ
Company No. 00606189
Name & Registered Office:
TEAM LOTUS LIMITED
HETHEL INDUSTRIAL ESTATE
POTASH LANE HETHEL WYMONDHAM
As much as I try to avoid all things James Allen this link takes you to a video feed of the Tony Fernades Lotus team rebrading their HQ with the original Lotus livery. A bit provocative?
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/01/i ... tus-again/
I'd also like to remake the point about black and gold, if the Lotus sponsored Renault Genii /apital team think they are going to win any friends with their new livery then they must be delusional. Black and Gold were the JPS team lotus colours whilst BRG with a yellow stripe (post Indy adventures) are the traditional Team Lotus colours. I have to say, having seen the black and gold car at the Autosport show, it looks awful; especailly with the red Total bits. A half arsed sop to those who don't know any better. What next, the team will call their cars John Player Special's?
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/01/i ... tus-again/
I'd also like to remake the point about black and gold, if the Lotus sponsored Renault Genii /apital team think they are going to win any friends with their new livery then they must be delusional. Black and Gold were the JPS team lotus colours whilst BRG with a yellow stripe (post Indy adventures) are the traditional Team Lotus colours. I have to say, having seen the black and gold car at the Autosport show, it looks awful; especailly with the red Total bits. A half arsed sop to those who don't know any better. What next, the team will call their cars John Player Special's?
Sportsman, I've looked on the companies house website before and it does confuse matters somewhat. Clive Chapman uses Classic Team Lotus and Team Lotus International as trading names from the Hethal Industrial Estate address. There are so many Team Lotuses floating around at the moment it's hard to tell who is who.
I agree with you FB about the black and gold colour scheme not looking brilliant and the big red Total signs not helping either. Wifey thought that the gold looked almost yellow. I guess someone somewhere was paid a small fortune to paint that car.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens on the 24th in court. Either way it's a total farce and has done more harm than good to a once great name.
I agree with you FB about the black and gold colour scheme not looking brilliant and the big red Total signs not helping either. Wifey thought that the gold looked almost yellow. I guess someone somewhere was paid a small fortune to paint that car.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens on the 24th in court. Either way it's a total farce and has done more harm than good to a once great name.
Mark
Mark text:
CABC TEAM LOTUS
Proprietor:
Group Lotus Plc
Potash Lane, Hethel, Norwich, Norfolk, NR14 8EZ
Incorporated country:
United Kingdom
Residence country:
United Kingdom
Customer's ref:
AWP/T112278GB00
ADP number:
0101212001
Other cases owned by this proprietor
Service:
Boult Wade Tennant
Verulam Gardens, 70 Gray's Inn Road, London, WC1X 8BT
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2560196
ADP number:
0000042001
Mark text:
CABC TEAM LOTUS
Proprietor:
Group Lotus Plc
Potash Lane, Hethel, Norwich, Norfolk, NR14 8EZ
Incorporated country:
United Kingdom
Residence country:
United Kingdom
Customer's ref:
AWP/T112278GB00
ADP number:
0101212001
Other cases owned by this proprietor
Service:
Boult Wade Tennant
Verulam Gardens, 70 Gray's Inn Road, London, WC1X 8BT
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2560196
ADP number:
0000042001
Fairuz Fauzy has gone to [bg=#000000]Lotus[/bg] as test driver, which is slightly unsurprising. Wonder if [bg=#004400]Lotus[/bg] will find some other Malaysian chancer to drive their car.
Other goverments websites show the trademark as revoked as if this date.It was as is required by law advertised in the Trademarks journal.Group Lotus PLC have applied for for it.
It seems fairly clear that Tony Fenandes does not own the right to use it.
1 Malysia racing Fernandes holding company for his team thats the company his Renault and Red Bull gearbox contracts are with.Not Team Lotus.
BACKGROUND
1) The following trade mark is registered in the name of Team Lotus VenturesFer
Limited.
Mark Number Registration
Date
Class Specification
TEAM LOTUS 2297413A 12.09.03 41 Sports entertainment services,
motor racing, club services,
hospitality, organisation of
competitions and events.
2) By an application dated 17 October 2008, Group Lotus Plc applied for the
revocation of the registration under the provision of Section 46(1)(a) claiming there
had been no use of the trade mark on the services for which it is registered in the five
years following the date of completion of the registration procedure. A revocation
date of 13 September 2008 is sought.
3) On 6 January 2009 the registered proprietor filed a counterstatement denying the
applicant’s claim.
4) Both sides filed evidence. The matter was due to be heard on 11 January 2010.
However, on 6 January 2010 the registered proprietor consented to the revocation of
the trade mark. The trade mark is therefore revoked in full as of 13 September 2008.5) As the applicant has been successful it is entitled to a contribution towards its costs.
Both sides have provided written submissions on the issue of costs. The applicant
seeks costs at the top end of the Registry scale, as it states that it made repeated
requests for evidence regarding its claim to entitlement to use the mark in suit and
also evidence relating to the issue of consent. I note that the issue of “claim to
entitlement of use” relates to the period some considerable time prior to the
registration of the mark and is therefore not an issue that should be considered under a
revocation based on non-use. While I therefore reject the request to award costs at the
top end of the Registry scale, I do accept that Counsel for the applicant would have
carried out some preparatory work (such as on its skeleton argument and submissions)
at the point at which the registered proprietor consented to the revocation. I order the
registered proprietor to pay the applicant proprietor the sum of £1,100. This sum to be
paid within seven days of the expiry of the appeal period or within seven days of the
final determination of this case if any appeal against this decision is unsuccessful.
Dated this 26 day of January 2010
George W Salthouse
For the Registrar,
the Comptroller-General
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-f ... r=O/026/10
It seems fairly clear that Tony Fenandes does not own the right to use it.
1 Malysia racing Fernandes holding company for his team thats the company his Renault and Red Bull gearbox contracts are with.Not Team Lotus.
BACKGROUND
1) The following trade mark is registered in the name of Team Lotus VenturesFer
Limited.
Mark Number Registration
Date
Class Specification
TEAM LOTUS 2297413A 12.09.03 41 Sports entertainment services,
motor racing, club services,
hospitality, organisation of
competitions and events.
2) By an application dated 17 October 2008, Group Lotus Plc applied for the
revocation of the registration under the provision of Section 46(1)(a) claiming there
had been no use of the trade mark on the services for which it is registered in the five
years following the date of completion of the registration procedure. A revocation
date of 13 September 2008 is sought.
3) On 6 January 2009 the registered proprietor filed a counterstatement denying the
applicant’s claim.
4) Both sides filed evidence. The matter was due to be heard on 11 January 2010.
However, on 6 January 2010 the registered proprietor consented to the revocation of
the trade mark. The trade mark is therefore revoked in full as of 13 September 2008.5) As the applicant has been successful it is entitled to a contribution towards its costs.
Both sides have provided written submissions on the issue of costs. The applicant
seeks costs at the top end of the Registry scale, as it states that it made repeated
requests for evidence regarding its claim to entitlement to use the mark in suit and
also evidence relating to the issue of consent. I note that the issue of “claim to
entitlement of use” relates to the period some considerable time prior to the
registration of the mark and is therefore not an issue that should be considered under a
revocation based on non-use. While I therefore reject the request to award costs at the
top end of the Registry scale, I do accept that Counsel for the applicant would have
carried out some preparatory work (such as on its skeleton argument and submissions)
at the point at which the registered proprietor consented to the revocation. I order the
registered proprietor to pay the applicant proprietor the sum of £1,100. This sum to be
paid within seven days of the expiry of the appeal period or within seven days of the
final determination of this case if any appeal against this decision is unsuccessful.
Dated this 26 day of January 2010
George W Salthouse
For the Registrar,
the Comptroller-General
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-f ... r=O/026/10
sportsman,
That looks pretty conclusive on the face of it, so why is it that the fight continues?
If Fernandes knows that he can't use the Team Lotus trademark through non-use, why has he just started using it all over his cars, factory and website a year on from the date of that ruling?
One would think there must be more to it than meets the eye.
That looks pretty conclusive on the face of it, so why is it that the fight continues?
If Fernandes knows that he can't use the Team Lotus trademark through non-use, why has he just started using it all over his cars, factory and website a year on from the date of that ruling?
One would think there must be more to it than meets the eye.
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