The Lotus Question

[Grizzly]

...and I think starting to damage the Lotus name.

...and the understatement of the year award goes to:....


-----


Anyway, words cannot describe the mess BOTH parties have made IMO.

This is a fall out of three or four Malaysian businessman. Nothing more than that. Unfortunately it happens that the monumental fall out is all over what was a glorious British manufacturer, that almost certainly had its time cut short, but even if its founders death was horrible and untimely, it died a natural and humble death many years ago and actually ALL this does is **** up that companies legacy and reputation.

If i ran the FIA right now id be telling both of them to STFU, look for a new name, or get out of F1.

 

[cider_and_toast]

cider_and_toast said:
...and I think starting to damage the Lotus name.



...and the understatement of the year award goes to:....

Thanks. I've finally won something at long last

If i ran the FIA right now id be telling both of them to STHU, look for a new name, or get out of F1.

Absolutely.

Before the full facts of this so called deal between 1Malaysia and Group Lotus came out, I got quite narked that people were calling the new team "Team Proton" or words to that effect. Of course it was assumed in the beginning that Group Lotus were the major player in this new venture.

Last year the conditions seemed to exist for the name Lotus to be returned to F1 with some sort of legitmacy that I believe is now impossible to obtain. If, when this plan was first brought up at Lotus, all of the vested interests, i.e. Proton, Group Lotus, The Chapman family, David Hunt and 1Malaysia got together this surely could have been sorted to the benefit of all. I don't doubt for a second that it wouldn't have been easy but it wouldn't have been such a mess as we have now.

It's interesting to note that Bahar isn't going through the courts to prevent Clive Chapman from using the Lotus name in either "Classic Team Lotus" or "Team Lotus International" which are the two companies that Clive Chapman owns.

 

[teabagyokel]

It seems to me that Tony Fernandes is trying to paint himself as the good guy in all this, with his accusations of bullying against Group Lotus, his change back to green 'n' gold to be "reasonable" etc.

Its interesting to note his reasons for going back to green 'n' gold were to (a) stop confusion and (b) not promote John Player by implication. Its not as if Mike Gascoyne conducted a Twitter poll where his followers overwhelmingly suggested green 'n' gold was the way to go.

What I don't understand is why Group Lotus, when wanting to buy into F1, chose not to co-operate with the existing 'Lotus' team (1.Malaysia) and instead decided to take over Renault, thus ensuring that the credit on FIA official documents for building the chassis goes to the French lot when they've had sod all to do with it.

Anyway, the entry list for 2012 has been leaked...

Red Bull Lotus Racing Renault
Vodafone McLaren Lotus Mercedes
Scuderia Lotus Ferrari
Mercedes GP Lotus Petronas
Lotus Renault
AT&T Williams Lotus Cosworth
Force Malaysia Lotus Mercedes
Lotus Telmex Sauber Ferrari
Scuderia Loto Toro Rosso Ferrari
Team Lotus Renault
Hispania Racing Lotuses Cosworth
Maruissa Virgin Manor Lotus Cosworth
Lotus Stefan GP Toyota

How sodding stupid.

 

[tooncheese]

Im going t go all Eddie Jordan and say somting propostous:

@TBY, if HRT are desperate to offload there team, why shouldn't a version of Lotus slip in, litespeed wante to use the name didn't they? And there are still a cuple of lotus names floating around that Proton havn't managed to grab hold of.

 

[Speshal]

Red Bull Lotus Racing Renault
Vodafone McLaren Lotus Mercedes
Scuderia Lotus Ferrari
Mercedes GP Lotus Petronas
Lotus Renault
AT&T Williams Lotus Cosworth
Force Malaysia Lotus Mercedes
Lotus Telmex Sauber Ferrari
Scuderia Loto Toro Rosso Ferrari
Team Lotus Renault
Hispania Racing Lotuses Cosworth
Maruissa Virgin Manor Lotus Cosworth
Lotus Stefan GP Toyota

- I'm going to change my middle name to Lotus.

 

[FB]

Don't IBM own the Lotus trademark for their rather crappy Office type programs? If I was an F1 team principal I'd be dashing off to try and get them as title sponsor

More seriously, "Team" Lotus are sticking with the green & yellow scheme. This whole "black & gold" thing is just crap, unless Bernie has got an exemption for John Player to come back into F1 to promote their tasteless cigarettes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 279469.stm

Malaysian car in British Racing Green Didn't Lotus add the yellow stripe at the behest of the organisers of the Indy 500?

Another question. Should either of the Lotus teams actually win a race what anthem will be played on the Podium? Presumably Group Lotus Renault Renault will have the French National Anthem and Team Lotus Renault the Malaysian NA?

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Anyway, words cannot describe the mess BOTH parties have made IMO.

This is a fall out of three or four Malaysian businessman. Nothing more than that. Unfortunately it happens that the monumental fall out is all over what was a glorious British manufacturer, that almost certainly had its time cut short, but even if its founders death was horrible and untimely, it died a natural and humble death many years ago and actually ALL this does is chuff up that companies legacy and reputation.

If i ran the FIA right now id be telling both of them to STHU, look for a new name, or get out of F1.

Couldn't agree with this more, Started watching F1 has a young kid, when Lotus was coming to an end, So to me Lotus, Colin Chapman, Peter Warr and everything else is just a story.

But its a story that has enriched Formula 1 and makes me love it even more. i am concerned that if when im old, and one of those people who seems to have watched F1 forever, A Kid who was (ans still is) passionate, exicited and wanted to learn about F1, will ask about Lotus like i did once and I will have to mention this new Chapter in Lotii's history (Real or not) and Talk about the War between two unconnected people to Lotus Fernandez and Bahar. I think this is Sad and even a little upsetting that two people want to use lotus for Marketing purposes and add this Blight to the Lotus name.

I think its sad and in a way upsetting.

Also one thing i cannot help thinking rencently is how must the Champan family think about all this?

 

[fat jez]

The Team Lotus websiteis now live and apparently their factory has been rebranded from Lotus Racing. I think this constitutes throwing down the gauntlet!

 

[cider_and_toast]

Hmmmm, The website is a bit of a mash up of the old and new.

Wonder where it's going to go from here? If it's found that David Hunts claims on the assets of the former Team Lotus are we to consider this then is a proper continuation of Team Lotus?

The mess continues.

 

[Grizzly]

...I also just took a look at the Renault F1 site, which is still very yellow and French at the moment...

 

[teabagyokel]

Yes, because they haven't announced their full sponsor line up yet.

They'll have:

Fear R He (a political smear company).
Maclaren buggies.
The Red Bull can making company.
Benz. (still not got over it).
Force India Star Wars Fan Club.
William's. (a company run by William).
Sew Bear. (a Russian novelty company).
His Pain Ear. (specialising in cotton buds).
Racing Virgins. (God only knows what they do).

 

[Grizzly]

The Benz

...Team Lotus still have all last years sponsors inc. Proton scrolling their site. I wonder when these teams year end is? ...which is what i presume they are waiting on..

 

[sportsman]

Clive Chapman is supporting Group Lotus.

"The family of Colin Chapman has thrown its support behind Group Lotus's ambitions with the Renault team, after expressing its view that it would prefer the Team Lotus name not to return to Formula 1.With no end in sight to the naming row that will see the Group Lotus-sponsored Renault team going up against Team Lotus in F1 next year, Lotus founder Colin Chapman's son Clive has now made his views clear for the first time.

In a statement issued on Thursday on behalf of the Chapman family by Clive, who is managing director of Classic Team Lotus, he says he is fully behind the efforts of Group Lotus CEO Dany Bahar"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88759

 

[cider_and_toast]

Despite CEO of Group Lotus, Danny Bahar's repeated claims that the car maker isn't trying to be "Team Lotus" and that the racing efforts of Group Lotus are not the same as those in the past, What do we see in the centre spread of this weeks Autosport?

"The Lotus in Motorsport 2011" supplement that not only links the new Lotus sponsored Renault team to the teams previous history but on every page links the new efforts of Group Lotus to those of the past. Interestingly, in the Team Lotus potted history, no mention is made of "Team Lotus" being sold out of the group in 1991, no mention is made of David Hunt purchasing the teams assets, no mention is made of "Pacific Team Lotus" in 1995 and no mention is made of Lotus F1 Racing.

What is clear though is that there seems to be a major charm offensive in progress and this stupid situtation is likely to rumble on for months.

*EDIT*

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88709

This link contains the quotes from Bahar about not trying to be Team Lotus all though I guess you could argue that they are using the history of the company as he claims.

 

[sportsman]

According to this UK IPO office the application to use the Team Lotus has been withdrawn.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-f ... rk=2561143

 

[cider_and_toast]

Not sure about that. It looks like the application concerns painting a yellow band on BRG on cars.

It does however continue to pile more mystery on the whole situation.

 

[cider_and_toast]

The new Lotus-Renault Paint Scheme was launched today at the Autosport National Motorsport Show in Birmingham. It appears to be pretty much a carbon copy of the scheme that appeared on Autosports front cover a few weeks ago under the headline "The Real Lotus is back".

The car was launched on the Group Lotus stage and included the news that the Renault team have changed their Racing License registration from France to Great Britain meaning that if a Renault driver makes it to the top step the British national anthem will be played instead of the French one. Team boss Eric Boullier said this was as a result of the tie up with Lotus and the importance of the team staff based in Enstone.

The small British Flags that appeared on the car in the original Autosport picture (in reference to the Union Jacks on the sides of the Type 78/79) won't be on the new colour scheme due to the car still having several French based sponsors.

This was the quote from Boullier on the naming rights issue:

Boullier also said that all thoughts on the naming row that has overshadowed Group Lotus' entry into F1 with Renault have been put to the back of his mind – as he is simply overjoyed with the support his team is getting.

"I am pretty happy to be here," he said on the Group Lotus stage. "I have to say, to have Clive Chapman here is a good sign, I must say. Definitely we are representing Lotus Cars – and we don't claim any heritage or anything. We are the F1 vision of Lotus. It is good to have a Chapman family member here.

"The strategy of Group Lotus was to licence the F1 entry. For reasons that they decided on their own, they decided to change their strategy and to stick with us. That is it. There is only one Lotus manufacturer in the world and they have asked us to represent them in F1. That is the end of the story."

Source: Autosport

 

[tooncheese]

The only problem I have with this is that Fernandes only bought Team Lotus after he found out Proton were looking at buying Renault, and leaving 1Malaysia there, and so Fernades could no longer call his team Lotus. So it seems to me he bought the Team Lotus name in spite/desperacy*, and is now claiming to have the Team Lotus history, unlike Group Lotus. Seems both teams will remain on the grid when this pointless law suit is finished.

*correct me if i'm wrong please, its a pretty severe accusation.

 

[sportsman]

Name & Registered Office:
TEAM LOTUS INTERNATIONAL LIMITED
POTASH LANE
HETHEL
NORFOLK Same address as Group Lotus
NR14 8EY
Company No. 01225833

Name & Registered Office:
TEAM LOTUS LIMITED
HETHEL INDUSTRIAL ESTATE
POTASH LANE HETHEL
WYMONDHAM Same address as Group Lotus
NORFOLK
NR14 8EY
Company No. 01593504

Name & Registered Office:
TEAM LOTUS VENTURES LIMITED
TEAM LOTUS IRONSIDE WAY
HINGHAM
NORWICH
NORFOLK David Hunts address
NR9 4LF
Company No. 02998306
Name & Registered Office:

GROUP LOTUS PLC
POTASH LANE
HETHEL
NORWICH
NORFOLK
NR14 8EZ
Company No. 00606189

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/be8cf ... ompdetails

 

[JuR3]

tooncheese, you are wrong. TF announced on Singapore grand prix that they will buy TL brand. Day after that, Group Lotus stopped suporting TF, and they bought share in renault GP in begining of December I think.