FIA Technical Directive 15: Use of exhaust blown gasses to be restricted (or not, as the case may be)
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
Perhaps it's just the hormones. Maybe he needs some therapy?
Indeed. and i believe you can swap 'early' for 'for good' too!
The playing field isn't exactly level though.
All of the established teams have decades of experience and were able to take advantage when in-season testing was unlimited.
To expect new teams to be on the same pace with just 20 races a year and a few extra days in winter for testing is unrealistic.
And then to suddenly reintroduce the 107% rule...
Anyway, we've been over that ground in other threads.
All of the established teams have decades of experience and were able to take advantage when in-season testing was unlimited.
To expect new teams to be on the same pace with just 20 races a year and a few extra days in winter for testing is unrealistic.
And then to suddenly reintroduce the 107% rule...
Anyway, we've been over that ground in other threads.
tranquility2k9
Podium Finisher
I've just said this in another topic, but it also applies to this one:-
An intruiging article on why Red Bull are so much faster in qualifying than in the race:- http://www.thef1times.com/community/display/00240
If what that article is saying is true (and it makes complete sense) then by RB gaining much more downforce through using 100% gasses off-throttle, then this is also what is allowing them to use the DRS when others cannot. So if you took away their advantage in using exhausts gasses off-throttle, then you'd also take away most of their DRS advantage, equaling a significant drop in 1 lap performance relative to the others. I'm pretty sure this is where they're gaining 80% of their 1 lap advantage and so when the regulations likely change, this could hurt them a lot.
If what that article is saying is true (and it makes complete sense) then by RB gaining much more downforce through using 100% gasses off-throttle, then this is also what is allowing them to use the DRS when others cannot. So if you took away their advantage in using exhausts gasses off-throttle, then you'd also take away most of their DRS advantage, equaling a significant drop in 1 lap performance relative to the others. I'm pretty sure this is where they're gaining 80% of their 1 lap advantage and so when the regulations likely change, this could hurt them a lot.
snowy
Champion Elect
I would be totally and utterly amazed if McLaren, Mercedes and Ferrari were not all using 100% gasses also. They have been developing this area for a very long time now. I absolutely hate to have to believe Christian Horner... but when he says the advantage the Red Bull has over its competitors is not just one thing he is speaking the truth.
tranquility2k9
Podium Finisher
Hmm, I don't think that is their only advantage, but McLaren themselves said they thought this was one of the main reasons for their qualifying advantage and is an "area they are working on". Also, there is no other explanation as to why Red Bull go from being a second quicker in qualifying to being slower than McLaren in the race. Yes they can use their DRS more in qualifying due to having more downforce, but this isn't worth a second, and I think the reason they can use their DRS in places where others can't is mainly due to them using the 100% off-throttle exhausts.
It would certainly seem that the weight penalty of carrying more fuel for qualifying only would be more than offset by the advantage of more downforce (& more speed) through the twisty bits - the fact that Red Bull were able to deploy their DRS mid-corner during qualifying would also suggest that they have sufficient confidence in their rear-end grip to shed some drag earlier than everyone else.
I also didn't buy the Renault explanation for Heidfeld's fire - that looked to me like burning fuel leaking out through a cracked exhaust pipe, which was clear to me from the fact that you could see flame licking out of the front exhaust exit at the leading edge of the right sidepod, suggesting there was a combustible component in the exhaust gases (which we all now know is fuel being ignited off-throttle & forced into through the cylinder head to blow the diffuser).
Here's a thought - perhaps Red Bull are having problems cooling the KERS batteries in their car because they are employing such an aggressive off-throttle EBD? The point I'm getting at is that there is only limited space within those elegantly-sculpted sidepods to allow for heat exchangers as well as storage space for the KERS ancillaries - something clearly has to give way between the two systems, and I suspect Mr Newey would rather sacrifice KERS performance for superior aerodynamic performance...
I also didn't buy the Renault explanation for Heidfeld's fire - that looked to me like burning fuel leaking out through a cracked exhaust pipe, which was clear to me from the fact that you could see flame licking out of the front exhaust exit at the leading edge of the right sidepod, suggesting there was a combustible component in the exhaust gases (which we all now know is fuel being ignited off-throttle & forced into through the cylinder head to blow the diffuser).
Here's a thought - perhaps Red Bull are having problems cooling the KERS batteries in their car because they are employing such an aggressive off-throttle EBD? The point I'm getting at is that there is only limited space within those elegantly-sculpted sidepods to allow for heat exchangers as well as storage space for the KERS ancillaries - something clearly has to give way between the two systems, and I suspect Mr Newey would rather sacrifice KERS performance for superior aerodynamic performance...
Some good points RoB. Most of which I agree with.The Renault engine which incidently Red Bull also run is one of the most fuel effient engines in the current grid.So although they will need to carry more fuel, 10% more according to LRGP website the weight penalty MAY 
not be as great for them as other teams.
The Red Bull KERS cooling problem is very likely the reasons that you have already stated.
not be as great for them as other teams.The Red Bull KERS cooling problem is very likely the reasons that you have already stated.
An interesting theory which, if correct, should mean that if (or when) the hot-blown EBD is eventually banned, the Red Bull KERS should become more reliable, but at the same time their overall qualifying advantage compared to race pace should diminish.
Interesting theory
We know from the bulls mouth that packaging was difficult due to Neweys uncompromising design, so there is no reason why this should not contribute further, or compound, their problems.If their problems vanish after this directive is in force then.....
You could well be on to something there, Sportsman - the minimum throttle position would certainly not be corresponding to "nominal idling" in an off-throttle EBD map, would it? Directive 5.5.2 would also prevent them from setting a throttle position which would allow a "position just above idle" that could facilitate an off-throttle EBD too.
I think this one may well have some legs - I wonder if the FIA are praying that someone can beat the Red Bulls before they rule on this mid-June? Otherwise there's a high risk that they'll be effectively uncatchable before their Wings can be clipped...
I think this one may well have some legs - I wonder if the FIA are praying that someone can beat the Red Bulls before they rule on this mid-June? Otherwise there's a high risk that they'll be effectively uncatchable before their Wings can be clipped...
Might as well give them a throttle cable then. 
No need for DBW.
^^ angry sarcasm.
What the drivers right foot and the actual throttles are doing has not correlated for the last however many years. It will be very difficult to force this and will have several other adverse effects for the teams, all the teams.
No need for DBW.^^ angry sarcasm.
What the drivers right foot and the actual throttles are doing has not correlated for the last however many years. It will be very difficult to force this and will have several other adverse effects for the teams, all the teams.
With HRT and Virgin moaning, and Williams in their words "want clarification", I can see it getting banned or restricted "massively" since Cosworth can't provide these teams with it.
But I can also see teams that have this system, but are struggling with it join in the protest.
We may even see the top teams protesting aswell since Red Bull have nailed this system which helps them so much in qualifying compared to the others.
We saw last year how the top teams always complained that the Red Bull car should be checked out for various reasons. Surprised how that hasn't happened this year
But I can also see teams that have this system, but are struggling with it join in the protest.
We may even see the top teams protesting aswell since Red Bull have nailed this system which helps them so much in qualifying compared to the others.
We saw last year how the top teams always complained that the Red Bull car should be checked out for various reasons. Surprised how that hasn't happened this year
Yes indeed, but my point is, that it affects Red Bull much more. As I read somewhere here, this system is the main reason they have the advantage in qualifying, they have more downforce in qualifying with this therefore are allowed to deploy the DRS a little earlier than the rest of the teams.
It can hamper the rest of the teams, but Red Bull (and Renault) a much more, it could also make qualifying a bit more interesting aswell.