FIA Technical Directive 15: Use of exhaust blown gasses to be restricted (or not, as the case may be)

Here's a thought; with the evidence of Nick Heidfeld's Renault catching fire in quite a big way on Saturday morning, could the FIA force a ban on fuel being deliberately ignited outside the cylinder (i.e. within the exhaust pipes) on safety grounds? Even before Monaco?
 
Well it is being injected and ignited in the cylinder, but while the exhaust valve is open which means no power as such is generated, but the burn will indeed continue into the exhaust.

Renault must have had too much fuel flow (they would have been in maximum quali trim) or the ignition was too far retarded, meaning there was unburned liquid and or vapour in the pipes when they failed.

Of course what could be increasing the danger aspect and may have happened Saturday morning (I'm only speculating because it depends on how their system works and fail safes) is when it started Heidfeld would have been off throttle, so in overrun with possibly 100% fuel flow, simply feeding the flames at maximum attack! Like i said though we don't know how the car fails, i would think there is a pretty quick fuel cut, but remember off throttle with EBD is far far different from part throttle in that you are consuming as much fuel as if your were flat out, and what is the first thing you do when you have a problem? you lift!
 
Chad Stewarthill said:
Here's a thought; with the evidence of Nick Heidfeld's Renault catching fire in quite a big way on Saturday morning, could the FIA force a ban on fuel being deliberately ignited outside the cylinder (i.e. within the exhaust pipes) on safety grounds? Even before Monaco?
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Isn't this how an afterburner works on a jet engine? The teams are literally playing with fire now and another incident like Heidfelds should lead to a ban on the systems.
 
F1Yorkshire said:
Isn't this how an afterburner works on a jet engine? The teams are literally playing with fire now and another incident like Heidfelds should lead to a ban on the systems.
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Its a very similair principle Yorky. They are literally generating thrust in the exhaust gas.
 
From reading your arguements / discussions I'm pretty clear in my mind that RoB has nailed it as far as how it works and why Renault / RB are so good at it; also its impact on KERS. Cosworth probably can't afford to develop it and my reading of Sportsmans post re. the regs extract makes me think HRT have a perfectly valid challenge.

The one unpleasant aspect I found of these earlier posts were the vitriolic attacks on HRT which I felt were unjustified. They have as much right to race as Minardi ever did and are performing as well as Minardi ever did. Likewise they have every right to challenge other teams interpretations of the rules... Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Renault, Tom, Dick and Harry have done this since day 1.

If the challenge is proven by the FIA to be unfounded then everyone will have a clear understanding of where they need to allocate development funding.
 
Griz.Help me out a bit on this theory.According to the technical regs the throttles must reflect the accelerator position.
OK.If the valve timing is tuned to suit this configuration the driver could stamp on the loud pedal with the exhaust valve still open and the spark retarded enough to ignite the fuel thus blasting the burn down the exhaust pipe.
The engine mapping would then return to the usual spark advance position following the next induction stroke.
In reality the driver would just lift and immediately floor the pedal letting the engine mapping control the engines reponse to the throttle.
Hope you can see where I am going with this.
 
My main point was that safety is pretty much the only grounds on which the FIA can force rule changes through mid-season without the full agreement of the teams, if they so wish. So the Renault incident could be used by the FIA as an example of the kind of safety concern that would allow them to unilaterally introduce a full ban on the hot-blown EBD, thus by-passing any arguments as to its current legality or illegality.
 
That's my understanding too, Chad, but I think we'll need to have another couple of fires, in other teams cars, similar to Heidfeld's before that will happen.
 
Just read through this thread, some people seem to be getting really angry for no real reason. This is, in essence, a software problem. The hardware of the EBD is unaffected, it's just a change to the software of the engine management and it's not like they are short of them because in every radio message I hear the drivers told to flick to a new one. Huge amounts of money have not been wasted, just a few numbers on a spreadsheet need to change.

That said, it smacks of being a bit desperate on the part of hrt to threaten a protest at the most prestigious, sponsor packed yet dull rave of the season.
 
Mark Hughes discussing RBR's advantage in qualifying has this observation on the blown diffuser.

Mark Hughes said:
If Renault has indeed got a lead here, then the Red Bull would be expected to show better in qualifying than race.

But in this case you would also expect to see a similar performance pattern with the Renault car and that pattern is simply not evident.

Furthermore, both Mercedes and Ferrari are adamant they are finding a lot of qualifying lap time from the technology and there is no reason to suppose they are lagging behind Renault Sport in this respect.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13514134.stm
 
Brogan said:
More explanation as to why the ban was lifted by the FIA.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/newey-offers-insight-into-why-fia-exhaust-ban-was-suspended/
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Hmm - that smells rather dubious to me, much like Renault's "explanation" for Heidfeld's combustion last weekend. I can see why rival technical bods are looking askance at this explanation.

I mean - how exactly is running burning fuel through the cylinder head actually supposed to cool the exhaust valves?:s

I'm hoping someone can explain, as I'm genuinely mystified by this!
 
From the BBC Website...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13739621.stm

Formula 1 bosses have banned the sport's latest must-have technical tweak from next month's British Grand Prix.
Governing body the FIA has written to the teams explaining how it plans to dramatically limit teams' ability to exploit exhausts to increase downforce.
Teams have been tuning engines to blow gases into the critical diffuser area even when drivers are off throttle.
Even stricter restrictions on the practice will be introduced from 2012.
BBC Sport has learned that FIA race director Charlie Whiting has outlined to the teams the limits he thinks are acceptable in using so-called exhaust-blown diffusers.
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The practice was started by Red Bull's engine supplier Renault in the middle of last year, and the sport's pace-setting team is believed to be the most advanced in its exploitation of the technology.
But the ban will affect all leading teams. Only Sauber, Toro Rosso, Williams, Virgin and Hispania are not using a 'hot-blown blown diffuser. Formula 1 bosses have banned the sport's latest must-have technical tweak from next month's British Grand Prix.
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This could reshape the whole grid massively by the looks of things. Could this lead to the World Championship part 2?
 
I don't think so. By all accounts the facility is so wasteful of fuel that it can only really be used in qualifying.

So those cars that do particularly well in qualifying ;) might suffer a bit, but overall I don't expect a huge grid shake-up.
 
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