Susie Wolff, Female Drivers and Formula One

[marksawatsky]

Classy response, very nice

 

[RasputinLives]

You can't really expect to sprout that theory though and not expect a response like that can you? You are entitled to your opinion but saying 'I can prove it' doesn't mean we all can accept it as given. My point is lots of people have defended a belief with 'facts' throughout history from cigrette companies 'proving' cigrettes don't give you cancer to the 80's south african government 'proving' the white man was superior.

I am firmly of the belief that anyone can do anything they put their mind to regardless of gender and trying to bring 'biological' reasons and 'things I've observed' into this is nonesense. We have no female drivers because the entire sport is an old boys club who, like you, don't understand they are being sexist. They believe they are being perfectly reasonable and that 'the little lady' is entitled to have a go driving and good on her for trying to compete with the men! Bless her little cotton socks.

It will only take one woman determined enough to come along and change it all and then your views will look very antiquated. At the turn of the century they could prove that women didn't have the right analytical mind to vote too.

Anyways thats my 'classy' response to your 'classy' facts. I'm not going to bother to try change your mind because you are entitled to your view. I'm sure some of your best friends are women but.....

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Isn't the wrong target being attacked here? At least there is no gender segregation in F1, unlike football, tennis, golf, rugby, etc. etc.

 

[Dash Racing]

Just because it's less discriminatory doesn't mean it can't do better. Having seen motorsports from both sides of the paddock fence, I'd give motorsports as a whole a C+, as opposed to segregated sports a D-, and sports that prohibit female participation an F. I'd actually give most equestrian events a B+, though horse racing and barrel racing let it down, with horse racing being male dominated, and barrel racing being female dominated.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

So what's the solution? The only one I can think of is forcing 50% female drivers in young driver programmes and then (possibly a few years down the line) forcing 50% female drivers in F1.

 

[Dash Racing]

I don't like affirmative action initiatives, they're flawed. They never get lifted when there's equality, and it creates inequality in the other direction. The only solution is for the old patriarchy to get with the times, or for them to retire and for young people with less gender bias to take over.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

I'd pay good money to watch a series that has an equal amount of men and women!

 

[marksawatsky]

I have not said that women will never succeed in motorsports, only that their long history of self preservation works against them in this dangerous activity. Men, in general, don't have as strong a sense of self preservation. We take bigger risks, we are more aggressive and we often don't think of the consequences. Are you going to argue on these facts, too? Am I sexist for saying me do more dangerous stunts than women? These are not good qualities for many, many things, but they are a big part of racing a car. Of course there are women competing in dangerous sports but it isn't in the culture of women to do crazy, dangerous things. Men are well known for doing crazy things, it's in our genetics. Why is it so hard to understand that this same bravado that men have which gets us into so much trouble also helps us win races? It's all too easy to label me as sexist for stating a fact but if you can't attack the facts, attack the messenger-classic courtroom strategy.
I am not holding back any women, as a matter of fact, I have coached more women than men in racing and my female students hold several Rookie of the year awards and a National Championship. Calling me sexist for saying that women have to work a little harder to win in a race car is like calling me heightist for saying a short guy has to work a little harder than a tall guy to dunk a basketball.

 

[Dash Racing]

I'm refuting that it's biological, marksawatsky. Up until a couple of weeks ago, everyone in medicine knew everything there was to know about the knee. Turns out that many failed knee surgeries were a result of a lack of knowledge of the knee - they've found a ligament that most medicine didn't even acknowledge the existence of, despite the old model of the knee not being mechanically correct. Given that medical knowledge we thought was pinned down for hundreds of years has turned out to be incorrect, we must therefore revise all medical knowledge; that includes taking another look at our knowledge of hormones and biological processes, and possible differences between them in men and women. I could complicate it even more and point out that even using just 'men' and 'women' as categories is flawed, since physical gender is rather more varied than binary.

 

[Hamberg]

You're all overlooking a crucial point here, women are terrible drivers.

 

[RasputinLives]

marksawatsky did you know that in the 1800's they believed the black man had a slightly larger part of the brain that was related to 'servitude'. They weren't saying they couldn't lead or make decisions just that they had to work a little harder to succeed at it. A lot of slave owners in the South were very fond of their black slaves and said due to 'medical facts' they were all better off and happier with the way society worked.

Was fact at the time.

As for your facts regarding men having less self-preservation. You do realise thats not a fact but a stereotypes right? I know plenty of guys who are scared of heights, flying, snakes, anything and I know plenty of women who will quite happily throw themselves out of planes for the rush.

What your doing is mistaking hundreds of years of gender stereotypes for actual facts. As for the 'i've coached hundreds of women' line - like I said its the classic 'some of my best friends are black' line.

Argue the semantics of how I'm attacking you all you like but at the end of the day I think your view is hand me down antiquated and your trying to justify it with 'genetics'.

 

[RasputinLives]

http://scribol.com/anthropology-and-history/7-most-mind-blowing-she-daredevils-in-history

Bloody unatural these buggers.

 

[Dartman]

I knew a woman saloon car competitor from the 70's with works support, she practised with Davina Galica when she first entered motor racing from skiing. When Davina kept running out of road after gong sideways into bends, she was asked where her braking points were, the answer, you have to brake ?, in skiing we just go sideways to slow. Very little self preservation there.

 

[teabagyokel]

I'm pretty sure that genes are passed to sons and daughters from both parents. We all have X chromosomes!

 

[RasputinLives]

Yes but the shit driving gene only comes out in the Y.

Scientific fact.

 

[teabagyokel]

That's an inversion of the stereotype, for sure.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Am I missing the point? If women had their own series they wouldn't be in F1 would they, so how does that help?

 

[Hamberg]

It would be womens f1, like tennis/football/cricket/cycling etc

 

[Mephistopheles]

Maybe so but it would probably be a spec series and not have the same amount of money spent on it and not the same amount of tv coverage I'm not saying it isn't worth doing but it won't be F1

 

[Mephistopheles]

Formula E had the perfect opportunity to take on some female drivers as a progressive sport but they didn't....