Silly Chicanes

[LifeW12]

Chicanes only really started to become the norm after the Imola disaster

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

tooncheeseF1 said:
Early in the year we saw Mark Webber fly into the air and escape unscathed, an accident caused by a chicane. So from that we know that chicanes are dangerous, but Formula 1 cars are incomparably safe.

Have to take issue there; Mark Webber, not the chicane, caused his backflip at Valencia by his own poor concentration as he tailgated Kovaleinen too closely and tried to get past an inappropriate place. The chicane was merely an inanimate track feature. Pretty much everyone else managed to negotiate it safely for all 57 laps.

And how about the Bus-stop at Spa (new and old versions) and the final chicane at Suzuka? I seem to remember they have both produced some good overtaking action down the years.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

And how about the Bus-stop at Spa (new and old versions) and the final chicane at Suzuka? I seem to remember they have both produced some good overtaking action down the years.

Both of those Chicanes follow fast corners and straights. The ones that cause the issue are the unnecessary ones that follow an already slow corner so there is no need for the chicane to do the same thing.

 

[LifeW12]

Like the one in Abu Dhabi at Turn 11

Anyone who remembers the first Magny Cours race there was a chicane after the Adelaide harpin

 

[DOF_power]

No chicanes + well done progressive bankings + racecars with no wings nor diffusers = NASCAR.

Lets get rid of the corners and go oval racing

The NASCAR Trucks provides awesome racing. Cup on the other hand is long cookie cutter races with an aero dependent shitbox.
But I prefer rovals akin to the old Monza not fully oval tracks.

 

[DOF_power]

No chicanes + well done progressive bankings + racecars with no wings nor diffusers = NASCAR.

Lets get rid of the corners and go oval racing

Thats DOF's lifetime aim. For F1 to become NASCARs poor cousin

WTF, I've said F1 needs more passing not even less tech in the car.

 

[DOF_power]

No chicanes + well done progressive bankings + racecars with no wings nor diffusers = NASCAR.

Lets get rid of the corners and go oval racing

Thats DOF's lifetime aim. For F1 to become NASCARs poor cousin

I can just imagine the push-rod v8 Ferrari hand crafted from wrought iron, scaffold poles and some sticky tape...

Chapman's Lotus 80 and 88 didn't have wings for a reason, ground-effects meaning less drag for the same or more downforce.
Some people just don't get it.

Wings are what makes F1 like NASCAR, as in they're antiquated, obsolete, inefficient and expensive as hell.

 

[DOF_power]

Chicanes only really started to become the norm after the Imola disaster

No, they became the norm in the early to mid 70s after the deaths of Jim Clark and J. Rindt. That was tranche I of chicanes.
Then came tranche II after the death of G. Villeneuve, and the nail in the coffin/ tranche III was after Imola 1994.


Here's a complain letter from the late 70s of a disgruntled F1 fan.

Sir,

I sometimes wonder if the worlds top class of motor racing is really worthy to carry the world championship. Not long ago, I managed to lay my hands on a copy of the FIA yearbook. To say I was shocked would be putting it mildly: the endless pages of rules design and construction of both cars and circuits, especially in Formula One, are mostly needless and academic, and, for the most part, utterly beyond comprehension. How anyone can put up with such an excuse of a "rule book", or even read it without suffering a mental breakdown, is beyond me. Really the current rules should be much, much simpler and wider, perhaps even allowing cars such as Group 6 sportscars to compete in World Championship Events, after the sad demise of their own formula.

The regulations concerning circuits are even more pathetic. While I can quite see why safety standards must be imposed, there really is no need for such extreme measures as those stated in the FIA yearbook. While run off areas and barriers should be provided, there is no need for reams of debris nets, catch fencing and pathetic, near flush curbs. The CSI seem to think that by making a slow, dull, undemanding circuit, they make for a safe circuit, but this is not so. The stupidest thing of all is "chicane fever". Monza has been ruined that way. Anyone wanting to design a good circuit should go to Donington Park. It is excellent - although spectators should really be allowed inside the circuit. I can't wait for the British Grand Prix to be held there, but when will that be?

 

[teabagyokel]

I'm sorry, but you seem to think there is far more wrong with Formula One than is my comprehension. One of the joys of this sport is that there is chance for different cars to be successful, which means the tracks must have a variety.

Now, as for banking, I disagree with it. The biggest farce in the last 10 years was caused by a banked corner, and I never thought the banking added anything to the Indy circuit. And the banking at the old Monza was discontinued because Wolfgang von Trips' fatal accident also caused the deaths of several spectators.

Only Montreal, and maybe Albert Park, provides good racing in the dry on a consistent basis.

Well, I can't really think of two circuits that are less like ovals; and have plenty of chicanes.

I don't think you can ban (essentially) the entire design for a modern F1 car, and even if you do F1 people would find a way to get plenty of aero back in.

And, since you want to talk TV ratings all the time, F1 last year got an average of 4.2 million viewers in a country you claim is not an F1 country. Which is not too shabby for a terminally destroyed sport.

 

[tooncheese]

Teabagyokel said:
And the banking at the old Monza was discontinued because Wolfgang von Trips' fatal accident also caused the deaths of several spectators.

Von Trips death was actually nothing to do with the banking, it happened down at Parabolica. A corner like parabolica would never be designed nowdays.

 

[teabagyokel]

Sorry, I thought Clark tripped over him on the banking. Sorry!

 

[ATL11]

Sorry, I thought Clark tripped over him on the banking. Sorry!

Von Tripps did tangle with Clark prior to Parabolica. There was never banked track involved or the Parabolica corner, it was the straight approaching the corner where VT accident happened.

You can see the crash in all it's gory on YouTube, Clark & VT collide on the straight and this sends VT off the track on the left hand side, his car goes up the grass banking and then cart wheels taking out the first few rows of the spectators, killing around 13/14 and the car lands on VT killing him instantly.

As for Chicanes, I'm going to sit on the fence with this, some are useless (Barcelona), some should revert back to the old track (Silverstone) and some are good Canada & Spa.

I do wish they would review them (Chicances) as a end of year FIA agenda item to see if they are still fit for purpose?

Also I would love to see 1 race a year on a full oval (Rockingham)?

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Also I would love to see 1 race a year on a full oval (Rockingham)?

Rockingham is too small. The Pickup Truck series that races there will do a lap in around 40 seconds. Even with the infield section the track would still not be long enough or fast enough for F1

 

[Speshal]

There is no need for reams of debris nets, catch fencing

Whoever wrote that is an eedjut.

 

[teabagyokel]

Yes, but apparently because someone was moaning about F1 in the 1970s then we should undo the massive safety legislation since that time.

Yes, drivers know what they're getting in to, but that's no reason not to attempt to prevent it happening.

 

[Muddytalker]

Amazing - I remember seeing a snapshot of this crash in Autosport, where Barrichello was just about at the 'peak' of his rise off the kerbs, and his hands were off the steering wheel in a real 'head in hands' moment. Seeing it again at full speed brings back how dangerous (seemingly non-dangerous) corners could be compared to now (and I also remember the media reaction on the Saturday morning, "...And he survived..." etc - Remember, this was prior to Ratzenberger and Senna's deaths that weekend). The speed carried through that chicane, and the consequences of getting it wrong, you know it would not be allowed to happen if a circuit was designed today.

I don't necessarily agree with the sterilization of circuits, but you can understand why it's happened, and see the difference (for better or for worse) today.

 

[ATL11]

Also I would love to see 1 race a year on a full oval (Rockingham)?

Rockingham is too small. The Pickup Truck series that races there will do a lap in around 40 seconds. Even with the infield section the track would still not be long enough or fast enough for F1

There is a rule that a lap in F1 has got to be more than 60 seconds?