Things ... Should Vettel be dropped?

[cider_and_toast]

With this season looking likely to be around 14 races long, every point scored carries more value to a team. The shortened season makes mistakes more costly and opportunities to recover from them less available.

I don't know what's happening with Sebastian Vettel at Ferrari but he seems to have nothing left to offer the team.

Charlie has scored a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th

Seb has managed a 6th and two 10ths.

Albon, probably the only other driver to face as much criticism in the 2nd car, had a decent race today and is over 20 points ahead of Seb in the title race.

If Racing Point manage to appeal their penalty and McLaren continue to progress, Ferrari could well find themselves in 5th place in the championship. They haven't finished that low since 1981.

The question, if the first answer is yes, would then be "who could sub for Vettel?"

Would Hulkenberg make a better job of it in the second car or would he struggle like others have done stepping into Ferrari on a short term deal?

Is there anyone else available who could come in?

Ferrari have dropped drivers in the past for failing to make the grade regardless of their reputation at the time, but its not happened for a number of years.

It would be a sad way for Vettel to end his time in Italy and possibly even in F1 but would it be the right choice for Ferrari?

 

[F1Brits_90]

i know vettel dropped off but surely not that much. even vettel is surely better than this. there must be a reason im surprised they havent tried to change chassis. but is no confidence or is he struggling with a low downforce setup that ferrari are trying as he was much better in hungary. i wonder if he might retire & is coasting along he was extremely vocal against ferrari management all weekend. but at the moment vettel is having a shock leclerc 3rd & 4th if it wasnt for exploding tyres it wouldve 2 12th places

i cant rule anything out but vettel body language & attitude hasnt been the same since that italian GP. when vettel couldve gone home. wouldnt have been noticed

 

[P1]

There is no question that LeClerc is faster. However I'm not convinced today represents his performance other than that spin. I found this extract from Vettel's post-race interview indicative that Ferrari gave him terrible strategy. His quote makes sense to me.

Vettel said: “Well we spoke this morning and said there was no point pitting knowing that we will run into traffic - and that’s exactly what we did. We went also onto a hard tyre, which we then only had on for ten laps, probably not even that, so it didn’t make any sense. I mean why would you put the hard for ten laps and put the medium for 20 laps? So I was running out of tyres towards the end, so we spoke about exactly that.”

Simply put I also think Albon was supported better to fight through the field by Red Bull's strategy, vs what Ferrari did.

Personally I would like to see Vettel stick out the rest of the season and show us what he can do.

 

[cider_and_toast]

So a good follow up question we could also ask is whether it's a poorly performing driver or a poorly performing team that's causing Vettel to appear so far off the pace?

 

[The Artist.....]

Yes he should be dropped.

his performance this year reminds me of a Damon Hill in 1999... he just doesn’t have his head in the game any more! Hopefully, Ferrari management use this opportunity to bring in someone like Hulkenberg for the rest of the season...

 

[The Pits]

He already has been as far as I can tell.

Performances have not been good, butbjudgingbby the response from Binnoto last week, I don't think that it can all be placed at Sebs door.

 

[F1Brits_90]

So a good follow up question we could also ask is whether it's a poorly performing driver or a poorly performing team that's causing Vettel to appear so far off the pace?

without sitting on the fence it is a bit of both. this is a culmination of Ferrari issues over the years. Vettel is underperforming

but theyve designed a terrible car & team with that budget shouldnt be in the midfield. over the years theyve made terrible strategy calls just look at them 3 races Russia Japan Mexico locked out the front row but only managed a best of 3rd & chatting with my Ferrari mate i would always joke "how are ferrari going to cock it up this week"

 

[Il_leone]

I have noticed there is a pattern with Vettel when things go wrong and he has no confidence in the car he is seriously off the pace like Button and additionally thinks the whole world is against him from the team, the governing body and the stewards and being in a Ferrari - the savage Italian press.

He is not in a good place and it's better to leave on your own terms to be honest than be forced out at his stage of a career.
He has been caught in the Ferrari politics and the Italian way of doing things and failed even more so than Alonso but achieved more than Prost did.

Last year Monza ,Singapore and Sochi last year was to me a sign he no longer felt comfortable it was his team.

Should he dropped? I think there will be calls for this if he has another average drive next week. Ferrari have plenty of replacements ready whether its getting Sainz early or calling Giovinazzi or super sub Hulkenberg is now a possibility

 

[Bill Boddy]

Ferrari know that there will be at least years before they can have a car which ill be able to challenge for wins. They may as well keep Vettel as long as he is contracted for, he has experience which they mat be able to use in some way.

Who would be a choice anyway?

 

[The Artist.....]

Bill Boddy - last time they were in the position of having a multiple world champion, who was out of contract, and publicly berating the team, they replaced him by Gianni Morbidelli...

 

[The Pits]

The burden of expectation at Ferrari weighs heavy on the shoulders of those who must bear it. Whether that be technical staff, team principles or drivers. Personally, it is fairly clear that at least part of the issue is the pressure that driving for Ferrari can bring.

Vettel I think would likely benefit from the break, and it will be interesting to see how Leclerc manages the challenge. He has proven to be a prodigious talent, and a winner, but hopefully he is strong enough to also deal with the weight of expectation.

 

[P1]

So a good follow up question we could also ask is whether it's a poorly performing driver or a poorly performing team that's causing Vettel to appear so far off the pace?

Exactly. it is clearly both. Whereas Red Bull did well to help their poorly performing driver get up to 5th yesterday, Ferrari seemed to make the poor performing driver's job a lot harder. The tire strategy was totally moronic.

 

[Titch]

There is no doubt that Vettel is not performing well, for whatever reason he doesn’t have any reserves of anything left. If he wanted to stay in F1 next year, he would be trying to impress, I think his confidence has been completely destroyed by Ferrari’s decision to drop him, and by their complete and public support for what was expected to be the number 2 driver, who has taken everyone by surprise, especially Seb.
Poor man management? Could they get more out of him if they were publicly more suprtive?

 

[P1]

I'm not convinced by the idea his confidence is demoralized by Ferrari's decision to drop him. He is a professional athlete. Plus the interviews I have watched with him, he doesn't seem demoralized. He seems itching to understand the performance gap and fight back.

I think this is a conflation of various things:
1) The car does not suit him. Like Button he requires his car to fit his style and this year's car does not.
2) Poor race strategy - hard tire for ten laps at the first stop? Seriously?
3) Potentially defective chassis. Remember this happened to Hamilton in his first season with Mercedes and when they swapped the chassis, he was then beating Rosberg consistently. Binotto mentioned that they are considering replacing Vettel's chassis.

 

[The Pits]

I get the impression that Ferraris strategy was to prevent Charles and Seb needing to occupy the same tarmac at the same time!!

 

[Titch]

Well you could see their point if that’s what they were doing .

 

[Il_leone]

Ferrari know that there will be at least years before they can have a car which ill be able to challenge for wins. They may as well keep Vettel as long as he is contracted for, he has experience which they mat be able to use in some way.

Who would be a choice anyway?

Giovinazzi, Sainz if he can be released, Hulkenberg or one of their F2 drivers -Illott, Shwatzmann even Schumacher although that maybe for the wrong reasons

 

[Il_leone]

I get the impression that Ferraris strategy was to prevent Charles and Seb needing to occupy the same tarmac at the same time!!

I think they know Seb will not move out of the way if asked

 

[cider_and_toast]

even Schumacher although that maybe for the wrong reasons

Hold on a second, you're not advocating a driver getting a top drive because of his father, are you?

 

[Il_leone]

Hold on a second, you're not advocating a driver getting a top drive because of his father, are you?

I dont need to advocate it someone at Maranello probably has already. I know Ferrari or Binotto seem to rate Giovinazzi very highly. Putting Schumacher in the car would be a slap in the face for Illott, Giovinazzi, Shwartzmann. It would be unheard for Ferrari to put a debutant rookie in the car

Just to add further dissension within Ferrari Binotto said Vettel 's spin messed up his race more than the pit stop strategy. Seb is getting closer to being dismissed like Prost