Should Trulli have been reinstated to 3rd?

[bogaTYR]

GM

this is the procedure you talk about. i agree that this does not deserve a beauty prize but thats not what this thread is about. my point is simple, if the procedure was as i think it went, then the stewards had no choice but to reinstate trulli.

surely there should be a better rpocedure, i agree with that. but that again, is not the point.

 

[RickD]

Is that another way of saying he "misled" the stewards?

Surely not, he's Italian and Italians have never misled the stewards..

 

[Jen]

Indeed Bro, it is!

Both Hamilton and Trulli are equally culpable, which is why I had trouble deciding whether Trulli should have been re-instated.

It boiled down to which deception was the "worst" and had the most unsporting/immoral reasoning behind it.

GM is right - if the stewards had been a little better prepared and a little less precipitous then none of this would have happened.

 

[Brogan]

Indeed Bro, it is!

Both Hamilton and Trulli are equally culpable, which is why I had trouble deciding whether Trulli should have been re-instated.

I think this is the crux of the matter for me.

If they're both equally culpable of lying to the stewards then they're both guilty.
The stewards can't in all seriousness cancel out 1 drivers' penalty because the other one lied more.

The F1 FIA rule book is quite explicit in overtaking under a safety car.
The onboard footage from both cars shows that Hamilton did not have a problem with has car or pull over as Trulli claimed and therefore Trulli made an illegal pass.
For this reason Trulli's penalty should have stood.

Of course the FIA could clear this whole matter up in an instant by releasing the telemetry of both cars.
The fact that they haven't done so speaks volumes.

 

[Galahad]

GM

if the procedure was as i think it went, then the stewards had no choice but to reinstate trulli.

But the stewards' decision to reinstate Trulli was made five days after the original hearing. If they had time to listen to Hamilton's radio then they certainly had time to look at Trulli's onboard camera footage.

FIA Sporting Regulations 40.7:

"All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart and overtaking, with the following exceptions, is forbidden until the cars reach the Line after the safety car has returned to the pits. Overtaking will be permitted under the following circumstances :

- if any car slows with an obvious problem."

I'm afraid that, having reviewed Trulli's driving and the manner in which he passed the McLaren, Jarno is still guilty of an offence under 40.7 in my eyes and his 25 second penalty should have stood, leaving him 11th.

 

[Jen]

The F1 FIA rule book is quite explicit in overtaking under a safety car.
The onboard footage from both cars shows that Hamilton did not have a problem with has car or pull over as Trulli claimed and therefore Trulli made an illegal pass.......

Of course the FIA could clear this whole matter up in an instant by releasing the telemetry of both cars.
The fact that they haven't done so speaks volumes.

So are we to assume that although Hamilton admits he let Trulli pass, he (Hamilton) did not signify this somehow to Trulli? To allow an overtake, there has to be a definite action surely? Or did Trulli accelerate, maybe Hamilton did slow (albeit insignificantly)? Or do we just assume that Trulli saw an opportunity to break the rules and gain position (and hopefully get away with it).

There are just too many things that don't stack up, if you think about it all in any depth.

As you say, telemetry is the key and one has to wonder why it has not been released - virtually everything else has.

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Just a point here. All teams have access to each others live radio transmissions. Whats there not to say that Toytoa Told Trulli to pass because they heard Mclaren Telling Hamilton to let Trulli through? Just a thought

 

[Jen]

Just a point here. All teams have access to each others live radio transmissions. Whats there not to say that Toytoa Told Trulli to pass because they heard Mclaren Telling Hamilton to let Trulli through? Just a thought

AMR, you could have provided the missing link - and so blindingly simple. Genius!

 

[teabagyokel]

Just a point here. All teams have access to each others live radio transmissions. Whats there not to say that Toytoa Told Trulli to pass because they heard Mclaren Telling Hamilton to let Trulli through? Just a thought

I wouldn't rule it out, although the big question is have the stewards considered this, because they made their decision without consulting the McLaren radio. I doubt the stewards have considered this (because they're stupid*). Its all just one big mess and frankly the easiest solution is to find someone more competent to control this sport.

Neither Toyota or McLaren don't deserve to be caught up in Mussomosely's latest political war

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*(we didn't consider it because we don't know the rules)

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Well I presumed from the start that Toytoa knew something Hamilton being told to let trulli past and thats why they got reinstated. If my unterstanding is correct Totoya protested the original descion which sparked 'lie-gate' so they must of knew something to actually protest about it.

 

[Bellabella]

Mr Murray, in this case I think you are mistaken.

In my view, they were not.

I am not seeking in any way to justify or excuse Hamilton or McLaren. They were wrong, were correctly penalised and frankly I think further punishment would not be unjustified (depending on severity).

However I fail to see how their admissions of dishonesty affect Trulli's penalty itself. The onboard footage from the Toyota certainly does not show Hamilton pulling off to the side at 15mph, as if he had a problem. He was on the racing line on the exit of turn four and to my eyes does not slow appreciably - if he did slow a little, it is more likely to be because there is a recovery truck on the circuit around the next bend.

So it seems to me Trulli is still guilty of passing another car while behind the Safety Car and his penalty should have stood.

I have to say that it seems nobody is particularly interested in that aspect of this issue, though.