Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[RasputinLives]

I think Antonio Giovanazzi just copy and pasted cider_and_toast's post and sent it anon to the FIA

Hard to argue with really. I still think he didn't make a conscious decision to bash Lewis but he did it so that's that really.

Maybe sitting with his feet up in Austria might be the right result. Guess we'll see.

 

[vintly]

A thief is a thief, but a petty shoplifter is not an arch-criminal. I'm not excusing the intent, as I said, the act is deplorable and should be punished. Intent is part of it but not all, and the effect on the victim is absolutely relevant to the crime and it's punishment, as is normal.

Why ignore the nuance of the issue, the very particulars of a case? Just to make things easier perhaps...

 

[Bill Boddy]

There was a minor collision at approximately 70 kph, it did nothing to Hamilton's speed but it did slow Vettel. I suspect that Vettel did not intend to hit Hamilton but just give him a warning.

Yes, Vettel should have behaved more circumspectly and should be punished for that, but to string him up from a tree is going a bit far.

 

[Tuscan1969]

A thief is a thief, but a petty shoplifter is not an arch-criminal. I'm not excusing the intent, as I said, the act is deplorable and should be punished. Intent is part of it but not all, and the effect on the victim is absolutely relevant to the crime and it's punishment, as is normal.

Why ignore the nuance of the issue, the very particulars of a case? Just to make things easier perhaps...

OK I'll make that one easy; Vettel should have a one race ban now. Had anything worse happened (like Hamilton's car being punted out) then a season ban, and had anything worse happened like Hamilton or someone else being hurt as a consequence of Vettels action then Vettel should have been banned for life.

They are racers and they know the dangers of an accident but they should not have to accept the deliberate attempts of another driver to harm or injure them ; its not Death Race 2000 its F1.

Vettels actions and FIA's response will have an impact on youngers drivers views on how they drive on the racetracks and roads.

 

[The Pits]

Vettels actions and FIA's response will have an impact on youngers drivers views on how they drive on the racetracks and roads

Reàlly?

I personally dont think so. I credit the upcoming racing generation with more gumption than that.

Besides, if that were true, having watched Senna and Prost go at it, im amazdd any race gets beyond the first corner.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Why ignore the nuance of the issue, the very particulars of a case? Just to make things easier perhaps...

If the implication is that I favour one driver over the other then nothing can be further from the truth.

I'm no legal expert but if I set out to kill you and get caught in the act it doesn't change the fact that I was trying to murder you. Setting out to commit a crime and not succeeding is not a defence.

I agree that a judge will take a statement of impact from the victim after the accused has been found guilty but before passing sentence.

My argument is that a 10 second stop go was nor commensurate with the crime.

 

[vintly]

I wasn't implicating you had any preference of driver cider_and_toast, only that your argument seems to ignore the nuances within the intent of anger, aggression etc, or thievery. The levels of everything should be taken into account. The thief who stole £5 may or may not have stolen £500, that is not the point, he stole £5, and not £500. Would you have all thieves who steal between £5 and £500 punished in the same way?

 

[Greenlantern101]

Interesting look at the history of race bans

Analysis: What F1 history tells us about the Vettel investigation

 

[teabagyokel]

Did the stewards disqualify Senna when he took out Prost in Suzuka 1991?

No. It was wrong then and would be wrong now. Senna ought to have been banned for life for that particular stunt.

Like a thief who steals £5 - it's different to stealing £500. Although the act is deplorable and should be punished, the effect on the victim is relevant to the amount stolen, so the punishment has to take that into account.

Yes. He should be disqualified for deliberately driving into another driver. If he had recklessly driven into another driver, he should have been given a holiday. If he had knowingly endangered the life of another competitor by driving into them, the stewards should consider evicting him from the sport permanently.

The intent was to show anger, aggression

This is the crux of it. It is bully-boy tactics used to intimidate an opponent. It could create a dangerous mindset in the drivers whereby more dangerous events occur at a later date, but that's not actually that important. This behaviour is unacceptable, and needs to be punished appropriately. You cannot be taking points at events where you are behaving in this manner. It is not good enough.

If the rules state that it is not a disqualification, they're wrong. If the stewards interpret the rules to infer it is not a disqualification, they're wrong.

 

[vintly]

Four wrongs make two rights don't they?

I might be wrong...

 

[Bushi]

Some people make it seem like it was a attempted murder what Vettel did.

It was a bloody bump at 40km/h in a F1 car.
Bumps at the bumpercars at the carnaval are more intense than that.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Well at least its given us something to talk about. For that at least, I am grateful.

 

[RasputinLives]

They certainly should not have banned Senna for what he did at Suzuka in 1991! Gifting Berger the win was perfectly within the rules.

(He took Prost off in 1990)

 

[teabagyokel]

RasputinLives - For just about the first time ever, I felt the pedantry was unnecessary.

 

[Olivier]

Somebody should put up a poll; what would be vettel's appropriate punishment:

1. Nothing
2. Fine
3. Points penalty
3. Suspended race ban
4. race ban
5. Multiple race ban
6. Disqualified from 2017 championship
7. Disqualified for life
8. Crucifixion

 

[The Pits]

Can we choose multiple options?

 

[RasputinLives]

RasputinLives - For just about the first time ever, I felt the pedantry was unnecessary.

I really tried. I did. I realise this makes me a crap human being. There was intention there too. Maybe a one race ban?

 

[sobriety]

Eternal vigilance is the true price of pedantry.

 

[Rutherford]

Somebody should put up a poll; what would be vettel's appropriate punishment:

1. Nothing
2. Fine
3. Points penalty
3. Suspended race ban
4. race ban
5. Multiple race ban
6. Disqualified from 2017 championship
7. Disqualified for life
8. Crucifixion

I'd like to add hang, drawn and quartered to the list. Hamilton should drag him through a city behind his car. It's all about the show with Liberty Media, right?

 

[Andyoak]

Surely this is the only appropriate punishment...

http://www.michaelnassar.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/mishima-st-sebastian.jpg