Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[marksawatsky]

It's also the first time in many years that Seb will not be wearing Red Bull on his helmet

 

[FB]

If Fiat are going to float off Ferrari a certain Austrian gentleman will by the majority of the shares and we have three Red Bull teams on the grid.

 

[-WBF1-]

I may well be wrong; but I thought FIAT was only floating 10% of Ferrari shares on the markets?

 

[FB]

Vettel went back to Milton Keynes today to say goodbye to the crew there. He was given one of his Championship winning cars and a large model of a bull as a leaving gift.

Apparently the car won't be with him for a while in case it turns up in Maranello

 

[cider_and_toast]

Going to whip into Birmingham quickly and make sure they didn't pinch that from outside the Bull ring!

 

[cider_and_toast]

One for a caption comp perhaps?

 

[Road of Bones]

Horner hopes they didn't represent all his PR speak at the back of the Bull...

(Newey knows they did...)

 

[Bill Boddy]

Even the red doesn't conform to the specifications.

 

[Olivier]

Some pics from Vettel's first Ferrari outing

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/12/get-glimpse-of-sebastian-vettels-first.html

 

[cider_and_toast]

According to Christian Horner in an Andrew Benson article on the BBC website today, Sebs decision to leave Red Ball was probably influenced by Riciardo's speed.

While it is clear that a man with four world titles has little to prove to anyone, surely Sebs reputation is on the line in a greater way than few other drivers who have gone from being a great success with one team?

 

[Bushi]

A little bit unnecessary to say it now.

There are a lot of factors which may imply sebastians's bad performance/result this year. Howe ever I would have liked to see him for another year with DR.

 

[Jen]

Less of the towel would have been good and then one could take the rest seriously.

 

[siffert_fan]

I honestly don't see how Seb's reputation is on the line to any great degree. FA won both of his titles with one team and his reputation hasn't suffered from his inability to win with a different marque.

 

[cider_and_toast]

But we are not so much talking titles here as winning races and out performing team mates. Ferrari are undergoing a massive transformation and Seb may be joining at just the right or just the wrong time depending on the direction they take.

I know what you mean about Alonso but he has peformed well given which ever car he has had under him. It remains to be seen how Seb will adapt to a new team.

 

[siffert_fan]

But FA has always been designated as the Number 1 driver, except at McLaren and he didn't exactly mop the floor with his team mate there. This year, he may or may not have been designated #1, but he had the advantage of having been there for years and the cars were pretty much designed with his preferences in mind, in all probability.

It will be interesting to see how Ferrari fare with Seb (and vice versa), but I would say his reputation is secure. I also note that a lot of people ascribe Schumacher's achievements to the dominance of Ferrari, somehow overlooking that he had won two titles before he ever joined them.

I will never understand public perception.

 

[cider_and_toast]

That's the angle I'm taking SF. Public perception. Imagine the worse case scenario. There is already enough talk this year that it was all down to Webber's lack of pace and Newey's EBD design.

If he struggles against Kimi or perhaps even more importantly, struggles against Riciardo and Kyvat in his old team, that perception of him will be accepted as the norm.

Rightly or wrongly, the list of champions who don't have to suffer the "well it was all the car anyway" perception, is a very short one.

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast siffert_fan

Vettel likes to compare himself against Schumacher right

Rightly or wrongly Schumacher's achievements have been undermined by the influences he , Todt and Brawn had to ensure he would be the one achieving success as Murray Walker put it " He could have handled things better"

Vettel has just come from being labelled amongst the greatest with 4 consecutive world titles and the youngest 4 x WC in F1 breaking many records

This season when testing has gone well he has had to face a teammate who consistently could beat him not like the one off race like Webber and quite handsomely as well which would have played on his mind .

The change in Marko's stance that he encourages Ricciardo to prove his ability now the chance has been given which Daniel took with his grasp and getting praised for would not help either where previously Webber felt like he was fighting his own corner win or lose.

Ricciardo managed to win in not the best car as well which would been noted . It seems no matter what Vettel tried , Ricciardo seems to do better although he did just enough to beat managed to do better in tracks he excels at Singapore and Suzuka.

Overall its been a disappointing defence for Vettel and some of that has to be down to him and some of it down to the team. You'd expect given he has been Red Bull's No 1 for 6 years he would leading the way for Ricciardo

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast siffert_fan

Before this season Ricciardo was a driver with potential but no one knew how good as last year he was a great qualifier but in the race he ended up where Vergne was so they were not expecting him to trounce Vettel which could have been either bigger gap if it was not for 1st race DQ


The quotes and warnings by Alonso that Vettel needs to deliver when he does not have the best car seems to be ringing louder
http://www.grandprix247.com/2013/12/31/alonso-says-vettel-has-to-still-prove-legend-status/
http://www.espn.co.uk/ferrari/motorsport/story/140447.html

It may have seen as some sort of envious statement at the time but it has been proven right and hurtful for Vettel

---------------------------------

Now Alonso's reputation has improved because the teams who he has left have often performed worse than when he was there even Mclaren when you consider they should be multiple constructors champions

He has made Ferrari way better than it should be finishing 3 times as runners up to Vettel when Mclaren really ought to be the team doing it.

This season Di Montezemolo thought Massa was not pushing Alonso hard enough to ensure the team can go further in challenging Vettel. Therefore went to rehire Raikkonen despite not being very complimentary about him when he was replaced by Alonso and was considered amongst the top 5 on the grid.

Credit to Alonso he kept his intensity and absolutely destroyed Raikkonen who should have been consigned to retirement

 

[Il_leone]

Really Vettel has accepted a lot of money and jumped from a frying pan into the fire with so much upheaval at Ferrari. It is going to take time and I don't see Vettel challenging for the drivers title next season and realistically the only goal he has is to beat Raikkonen and quite handsomely as well given Kimi has iterated it is his last contract

If Kimi suddenly turns up then there will be some serious eyebrows raised about Vettel's credentials

 

[F1Yorkshire]

I posted this in the title defences thread

Schumacher. Senna, Prost, Lauda, Piquet, Fittipaldi, Stewart, Brabham, G.Hill, Clark & Fangio.

Not just multiple WDC winners but drivers who also went on to win the title in non-consecutive years, most of them having done so with different machinery than the one used for their original title.

If Vettel wants to add himself to that illustrious list then he needs to show that he's not just simply a one trick pony who was lucky enough to be driving the most dominating car for four seasons running. If he wins it again it will be in different machinery but as next years Red Bull could be the last ever Newey designed F1 car then I don't ever see him being able to add himself to that list of all time greats.