Refuelling to return in 2017

[Bill Boddy]

On Saturday the Nurburgring 24 hour race was on the German tv in a series of not connected programmes. During the first there was ever such a nice fire in the pits as one of the cars was refuelled. Fortunately no-one appeared to be injured, maybe they were just lucky.

This is coming to you on F1 soon. Tune in to see who will be the first roast long pig.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Mephistopheles I agree with you about the present fuel saving being a crap idea producing crap racing, but not about re-fuelling, which I detested and was glad to see the back of.
Even if re-fuelling did ever produce any exciting racing (which I don't believe it did - see nice link above by pob), having it and an arbitrary fuel limit is just plain stupidity of the highest order. The utter idiocy of the 'Strategy' Group in proposing to combine the two is staggering! Another false gimmick along the lines of DRS, 'wider rear tyres and wider front wings for an aggressive look' etc.
Get rid of re-fuelling and get rid of fuel limits (other than what the car can physically accommodate) is what I would like to see.

Perhaps they should bring in a task force of a certain three former TV presenters who are between jobs at the moment, I'm sure they could do a better job than the Strategy Group of coming up with a formula that would produce proper racing.
After all, how hard can it be?

 

[FB]

Reducing the size and complexity of the front wings would be a bloody good start.

 

[Dash Racing]

Yes single or double element wings all around would improve aero for following close to other cars, and allow overtaking. Notice, Formula Ford, no aero, lots of overtaking. Old F3, simple aero, lots of overtaking. Old F3000, more complex aero, less overtaking. F1, highly complex aero, almost no overtaking. Seems simple to me.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Also, one flat piece of carbon fibre stuck out of each side of the nose with a small end plate equals relatively cheap. One mega complex, multi plane, multi layered to allow for legal(ish) flexing, tested to the nth degree in a wind tunnel and using super computers, front wing, very very expensive. Simple.

 

[Brogan]

Isn't that what spec series are for?

Why stop at the front wing?
Why not make the tub the same on all cars, and while they're at it, the engine and electronics?

I think the front wings are as ridiculous as most others do, but as soon as you put severe design limitations in place, even more so than there are now, then it stops being F1.

Many people here hark back to how the cars used to all look different, with weird and fantastical devices, even six wheels.

That's never going to happen again obviously, but start limiting the front wings to 200x20x1 and things are going to get even worse.

I dunno, it seems to me most people don't really know what they want from F1.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Reducing the size and complexity of the front wings would be a bloody good start.

I've a good mind to create an account for my wife just to give that another "Like" FB.

 

[FB]

limiting the front wings to 200x20x1 and things are going to get even worse.

Doesn't it frustrate you when drivers report to their team that they either can't or won't attempt to get close enough to the car in front for fear of upsetting the aero and knackering their tyres?

 

[Brogan]

Yes.
The front wings are just one small part of that though.

Personally I'm not convinced half the crap bolted onto the front wings serves any useful purpose.
How many times have we seen someone lose a corner and actually go faster!?

 

[FB]

Agreed. I was reading a piece on the new rear wing end plates on the Lotus used in Spain. Fascinating science, completely bollocks useless in the real world.

 

[Mephistopheles]

So reduce front grip by reducing the front wing and increase rear grip by giving them wider tyres, won't that produce a horrendous amount of understeer?

 

[cider_and_toast]

Brogan. I understand what you're saying and I'm against F1 becoming a Spec series as much as you are. There would have to be a balance in the regs. You've said it yourself, most of the time a car runs just as well with half the front wing missing as it does with all the flaps and flips and flops in place. The problem as I see it as far as design goes is that every time they close down an area of design they do not correspondingly open any areas up for further research. Why not legislate a simple single piece front wing but free up the design of the car between the front and rear axles. At the moment this area has to fit into boxes of a certain shape and size which severely restricts any potential differences in design. Instead of mandating regulation upon regulation which has seen the series move further and further towards becoming a spec formula, why not trade off control of one area for deregulation of another ?? That would solve both problems.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

So reduce front grip by reducing the front wing and increase rear grip by giving them wider tyres, won't that produce a horrendous amount of understeer?

Just run them with the DRS fixed in the open position, that'll sort that out.

 

[Mephistopheles]

If supplying complete cars for the less financially sound teams isn't F1 heading towards a spec series then I don't know what is..

 

[Brogan]

IMO, cars should have to pass mandatory crash and safety tests.

Beyond that, anything goes.

Imagine what we'd see in 10 years time if engineers and designers were given a free hand.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Absolutely.

 

[FB]

Imagine what we'd see in 10 years time if engineers and designers were given a free hand.

 

[teabagyokel]

Why stop at the front wing?
Why not make the tub the same on all cars, and while they're at it, the engine and electronics?

The electronics are spec. The engine is proscribed to be made up of various mandated components. The tyres are spec. The rear wing has to have the flap, and so on.

Pick an identify, F1. Spec and close, or free and cutting-edge. This half-spec idea isn't a good idea. It won't please everyone either way, but they're just about pleasing no-one as it stands.

So GP2 plus, or WEC open-wheel? Salvation starts in choosing.

 

[Brogan]

^ That.

I've said many times that F1 is already a spec series in many respects.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Apart from the engine regulations change to mandate the ERS system and turbos, can any one remember the last time the rules were amended to lift design restrictions rather than enforce them?