Refuelling to return in 2017

[snowy]

Retrograde Arsholes.

 

[Greenlantern101]

You can get cream for that.

 

[teabagyokel]

What actually happens is that all the various options are fed into a super computer using an app called "What's the fastest method".

Could have a Canada 2012 situation where Lotus and (more likely) Sauber will do something batshit crazy and get on the podium.

Someone needs to tell the midfield teams a 4th is worth 5 9ths. It's worth a risk, no?

 

[cider_and_toast]

If only mate. If only. That's what F1 needs. I loved Hamiltons 'yeah but is it impossible' line. **** it, let them race. Ban the pit to car radio and let the driver think for himself. If he wants tyres let him come in and get them etc. Put F1 back in the drivers hands.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Further to my last.

The Lotus 78 had several different fuel tanks to help trim the car out as the fuel decreased during the race. The tanks were controlled by a valve arrangement within the car. As Ronnie Peterson lapped, the team hung out a pit board saying change tanks. Lap after lap they hung the sign out. Ronnie, fed up with seeing it lap after lap, wrenched the valve off and threw it at the pit wall as he went by.

That's car to pit communication at its best.

 

[HansyRod]

 

[Galahad]

This is just one of a number of proposals that the Strategy Group have, er, evacuated.

- Free choice of the two dry tyre compounds (out of four) that each team can use during the race weekend

Good move. Will increase Pirelli's costs substantially - which will presumably be passed onto the teams. Potential for safety issues as well.

- Faster cars: 5 to 6 seconds drop in laptimes through aerodynamic rules evolution, wider tyres and reduction of car weight

Depends on the detail of this, ideally for overtaking, most of the gain would be in the tyres rather than increasing downforce. F1 cars have become very heavy but I'm unclear how exactly they could be made lighter without changes to the powertrain/energy recovery gubbins? Most importantly, it's more buggering about with the formula at a time when there's nothing much wrong with it (in my opinion) and a period of stability would be welcome from a financial perspective.

- Reintroduction of refuelling (maintaining a maximum race fuel allowance)

Gah! Dreadful.

- Higher revving engines and increased noise

Since there's no mention of increasing the number of units, I assume manufacturers will at the very least have to apply reliability improvements, which won't come cheaply.

- More aggressive looks

Come again? They really let themselves down when they talk this sort of rubbish. Unless they mean the looks the Renault guys get from Christian Horner?

A few other measures have also been discussed but require further investigation before they can be implemented:

- A global reflection on race weekend format

- Measures to make starts only activated by the driver without any outside assistance

Nothing much to comment on here until the detail is known.

Furthermore, in light of the various scenarios presented by the independent consulting company mandated by the F1 Strategy Group, at the initiative of the FIA, to work on the reduction of costs and following a constructive exchange, a comprehensive proposal to ensure the sustainability of the sport has emerged. The Strategy Group member Teams have committed to refine it in the next few weeks, in consultation with the other teams involved in the championship.

Customer cars? Hopefully not.

On the engine side, it has been decided that stability of the rules should prevail in consideration of the investments of the manufacturers involved in the sport and to give visibility to potential new entrants. The allowance for a 5th engine to be used during the 2015 season has been rejected.

So they'll have to rev higher without reducing longevity, and yet the rules are stable. Nice trick if they can pull it off.

 

[teabagyokel]

Will increase Pirelli's costs substantially - which will presumably be passed onto the teams

Depends on the timeframe. The original Force India proposal was that each team gave Pirelli the same time that Pirelli themselves allot.

 

[Galahad]

teabagyokel - true, I had imagined they would have been freighting a full set of all four compounds to every race and allowing teams to practice on them freely, but actually the Force India proposal makes more sense logistically. Although, you could then be locked into a selection where neither compound is durable enough for your car - or even an Indy '05-type situation.

 

[teabagyokel]

Galahad - I would imagine you'd probably get Pirelli still giving information on what they expect to happen with each tyre to the teams beforehand, maybe with a "don't take the hards to Monaco, you dolts" message. I would also expect the Indy '05 situation to be mitigated by the fact that the title contenders are almost guaranteed to be conservative.

It could work really well if it is given enough forethought. I appreciate this is Formula One, and all previous evidence would suggest that is optimistic, but I do think there is a sane and workable procedure buried in there somewhere.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

There was mention of safeguards, e.g. no supersofts at Monza.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I never thought I would hear myself say this, but I'm getting very, very close to giving up on F1.

 

[Greenlantern101]

Some more info on the proposed changes.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118998

I like the idea of wider rear tyres. The cars have lacked mechanical grip for some time. Wider tyres would help following cars get closer in the corners to line up a pass.

The removing of the computer calibrated clutch would again bring back more driver skill. How good your start is depends on how good your computer callibration was on the warm up lap.

I have no idea how they think the gear box and electronics could save 50 kg in weight savings. Sounds mad unless they are talking about dumping most of the ERS batteries. Which is again mad.

 

[Tuscan1969]

Refuelling is a bit of a gimick unless they let you use as much or as little as you wanted in terms of pressure and flow rate.

They should logically remove the cap on the ERS storage capacity and use limits.

Finally, allow any tyre choice but also allow nil stops ; tortoise and hare......

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Refuelling is a bit of a gimick

That's a bit of an understatement.

Like the antarctic is a bit of ice.

 

[FB]

The rationale behind refueling was very sensible. Gordon Murray decided, after watching Alain Prost storm back to win the South African GP in 1981 after a late pit stop, that breaking the race up in to two sprints was a way to gain an advantage over the other teams. In a few races in '81 it worked out for Brabham but as their BMW engine went pop quite regularly it was only a few. Then everyone decided to do the same and any advantage was lost so what's the point?

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

When you get to the point where you have imposed a limit on the amount of fuel to be used in a race, and then you re-impose in-race refuelling to 'Improve the show', when it never did before, it demonstrates that you are an absolute ****ing imbecile who has completely lost the plot.

Or that you have utter disdain towards those for whom you claim to be 'improving the show'.

Or both.

 

[Bill Boddy]

So back to those boring races where the overtaking was done in the pits, whereas nowadays the overtaking is done in the undercut.

 

[Mephistopheles]

you re-impose in-race refuelling to 'Improve the show', when it never did before,

I believe it did improve the show it brought in more tactical play teams should never know how much fuel another team is using or how much is put in at a pitstop that is the point of refuelling, refuelling will make the race have far more drama I welcome refuelling with open arms I much prefer that to this shit fuel saving crap we have now, F1 isn't about fuel saving it isn't about being green it isn't about restrictions it is supposed to be about flat out racing at all times and that is something that has been lacking for far too long in my opinion I also hope they do something about this crap qualifying format as well, I've never seen qualifying so predictably boring with this system Damon Hill would have never qualified third at Hungry 1997 and he would never have been in a position to win the race or even get on the podium..

 

[pob]

Formula one fails to learn from the past on refueling with evidence from some website that tracks the f1 overtaking statistics