Technical Red Bull's Front Wing (Revisited)

snowy

Champion Elect
A wing and a prayer:

The BBC said:
Rivals are also likely to revive a controversy that erupted about another area of the Red Bull car last year.
They objected to Red Bull's front wing running closer to the ground than the rules allow when out on the track.
The car was checked and found to comply with the regulations but other teams continued to express their displeasure.
Red Bull's front wing and nose clearly showed the same characteristics in Australia, running closer to the ground than that on any other car.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
You just beat me to it snowy; I just read that quote from Horner too, in Ted Kravitz's analysis. So it looks like there is at least some truth in the rumours. And I note that 'other' teams (it didn't say who) are still complaining that the Red Bull front wing is running too close to the ground, even though it continues to pass all tests.


Drat! beat me again!LOL
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
There may be an advantage to running the KERS once in terms of the required cooling for it, but if they're having to use the same sized battery then I don't see the gain, unless they're concerned about reliability.

Newey is a far wiser man than me, however. From Horner's remarks it's clear they're up to something.

As far as the flexing nose is concerned, that's no surprise. It was never banned last year so it was bound to be carried over. If the flexibility really does come from the way the carbon fibre is layered up during construction, as per the rumours, then the other teams could be months or years behind Red Bull in taking advantage of it.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Are there any good images of Red Bull's front wing in action?

If it is clearly below the reference plane set down in the regulations then I hope the other teams once again protest and a bit louder this time.

I don't care how clever Red Bull are being with it, if it's against the rules then it shouldn't be permitted.
The FIA need to improve the testing if it is isn't adequate to catch out a system designed to beat the tests.

It's no different to the teams which cheated using adjustable suspension or water for ballast, etc.
 
J

johnnoble1990

Guest
Can the FIA not find some way of punishing Red Bull for cheating with their front wing?

I don't like Red Bull's consistent rule bending but it is down to the FIA to design tests to stop teams breaking rules. Teams build cars to pass the tests, not to bide by the rules.
 

Jen

Here be dragons.
Contributor
I'm convinced that there are "certain peculiarities" about that front wing.

Those that are calling foul know the rules as well as the next man - for them to do it two years in a row suggests that they were right the first time round
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I don't like Red Bull's consistent rule bending but it is down to the FIA to design tests to stop teams breaking rules. Teams build cars to pass the tests, not to bide by the rules.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Cheating

5. to violate rules and regulations

I'm not saying that the other teams do not cheat, nor that Red Bull are the worst offenders. But Red Bull's front wing is against the rules, and it is an unbelievable failing on the FIA's part to not ensure, with rigorous testing, that the wing is correct. It simply is not.
 
J

johnnoble1990

Guest
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Cheating

5. to violate rules and regulations

I'm not saying that the other teams do not cheat, nor that Red Bull are the worst offenders. But Red Bull's front wing is against the rules, and it is an unbelievable failing on the FIA's part to not ensure, with rigorous testing, that the wing is correct. It simply is not.

Yeah but i don't think they can enforce a punishment when they have passed the FIA's test.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
The tests simply aren't adequate.
We saw that last year when they increase the load placed on each wing.

What the test doesn't do is simulate usage, with downforce applying torsional forces on the front of the wing, twisting and bending it down.

A static test is never going to be able to reproduce that.

The video footage is clear for all to see and has been since early last season.
The FIA for whatever reason just don't want to find the wing illegal.
Maybe it suits their purposes to have Red Bull as champions?
 
J

johnnoble1990

Guest
The tests simply aren't adequate.
We saw that last year when they increase the load placed on each wing.

What the test doesn't do is simulate usage, with downforce applying torsional forces on the front of the wing, twisting and bending it down.

A static test is never going to be able to reproduce that.

The video footage is clear for all to see and has been since early last season.
The FIA for whatever reason just don't want to find the wing illegal.
Maybe it suits their purposes to have Red Bull as champions?

I agree that the tests are not adequate. The problem is punishments have to be legally enforceable these days, otherwise the FIA will have a court case on their hands.
 

ATL11

Podium Finisher
You can see from Snowy's picture (thanks) the gap to the track is mm's. Also if you look at this picture unless it's the angle the right side of the wing (as you look) is closer to the track then the left side, which shows the principle of flexing.

So a plastic KERS and bendy front wing, controversy before the first race..

As a test couldn't they just have a standard F1 car that can then bolt the 13 teams nose cones to the front of it, send it out on the track for a defined number of laps and track the movement.

Is it me or this like the Athletic's drugs cheats, they found a way of masking at the tests the drugs they took, they get banned for 4 years.
 
J

johnnoble1990

Guest
Is it me or this like the Athletic's drugs cheats, they found a way of masking at the tests the drugs they took, they get banned for 4 years.

I don't think we should get too carried away. There is a fine line between innovation and what you class as cheating. This new KERS thing is far worse if you ask me. It may not be as significant in terms of performance, but it is significant in how far they have drifted from its intended use.
 

ATL11

Podium Finisher
I don't think we should get too carried away. There is a fine line between innovation and what you class as cheating. This new KERS thing is far worse if you ask me. It may not be as significant in terms of performance, but it is significant in how far they have drifted from its intended use.

But if they are layering the Carbon Fibre in such a way that it passes the FIA load test to show there is no flex, but when out on track @ speed you can see the Flexing! Is it not like the Athletes who over winter training come back withing something akin to a Wrestlers body, start posting much lower times but when they pee in a bottle the test comes back lily white?

I do think this can all be fixed by FIA having a default car with standard fix points, where they take the parts from the 13 12 teams, bolt them on & test them on a track in race conditions, they could even get the Stig to do the testing! They would then be able to do test in race conditions & find out what's really happening. Though if they did that I would imagine a few RBR wings would go in the carbon fibre grinder and surprise surprise a new front wing designed & times amazingly drop off.

We've all seen the in-car footage of Seb's car and the front destabilising just before he nurfed Button's side pod @ Spa, it happens.

Oh by the way love the footage before hand:

 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Good.

I hope McLaren do protest and the FIA this time carry out a proper test to determine if it is flexing too much.

Or failing that, just watch some video...
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
Contributor
http://yfrog.com/hsr5jlaj

That is not right. Not at all, why the FIA aren't introducing some sort of sensor test for use whilst the car is in motion I don't know. I'm all for innovation but this is a clear breach and a second gap at the front is very bad for F1.

Just because it passes the inadequate test doesn't mean it's legal.
 
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