I should have put my edit in a new post it would have more meaning...
Räikkönen Pay
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I don't feel too sorry for him. He got paid huge sums of money for 2 years for doing absolutely jack, so I don't buy the hard luck story.
He's hardly on sustenance, and he will get his money.
He's hardly on sustenance, and he will get his money.
I have enough money to last me up to the end of this year. I shall be very upset if I do not get paid several times before then.
Lotus took Raikonnen on with a contract which specifies that they pay him certain amounts of money for specific actions. he has carried those out, he should be paid. If Lotus cannot fulfil their obligations it means that they are trading illegally, just as Arrows were.
Lotus took Raikonnen on with a contract which specifies that they pay him certain amounts of money for specific actions. he has carried those out, he should be paid. If Lotus cannot fulfil their obligations it means that they are trading illegally, just as Arrows were.
It is not the amount of money involved it is principle that is important..
Il_leone
World Champion
Its not just Kimi by the way -- a lot of the engineers were not paid for several months and they threatened to strike last year at Abu Dhabi
A lot of good engineers have also left Lotus as well
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Kimi has every right to sue Lotus ( Genii Capital)... they put a contract for his services for him to achieve in which he will be rewarded or paid for meeting them
If they could not afford the money - then why did they hire him in the first place with those contract terms
Genii Capital would have been better off being clean to Kimi saying look we're experiencing finance problems and we can;t afford your wages anymore and let him go and look for a new team like Hulkenberg has with his issues at Sauber
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The attitude by the owners Genii Capital - he's well off already and so should not be paid ... I don;t think any driver will accept that
full stop neither anyone on here for their hard work and not being paid for
- Its robbery
Titch Probably yes before Kimi seeing he is earning much less
A lot of good engineers have also left Lotus as well
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Kimi has every right to sue Lotus ( Genii Capital)... they put a contract for his services for him to achieve in which he will be rewarded or paid for meeting them
If they could not afford the money - then why did they hire him in the first place with those contract terms
Genii Capital would have been better off being clean to Kimi saying look we're experiencing finance problems and we can;t afford your wages anymore and let him go and look for a new team like Hulkenberg has with his issues at Sauber
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The attitude by the owners Genii Capital - he's well off already and so should not be paid ... I don;t think any driver will accept that
full stop neither anyone on here for their hard work and not being paid for
- Its robbery
Titch Probably yes before Kimi seeing he is earning much less
On the money situation, Raikkonen himself was paid late last year, while there were talks of engineers still not getting paid, and a possible strike.
A few notable names have/are leaving Lotus this year, Raikkonen and James Allison being one of them.
Also, it's not the first time they've mistreated their drivers or staff before, just need to look back at the whole of the 2011 season.
You offer a contract, stick to it, it's went on long enough, starting from last season too. It was only a matter of time the partnership ended, especially when the guys been driving his butt off the past two years for you, and even racing when he had back problems.
It seems that Lotus have suffered the worst, first with the PR, and now probably unlikely to achieve higher than 4th in the constructors.
A few notable names have/are leaving Lotus this year, Raikkonen and James Allison being one of them.
Also, it's not the first time they've mistreated their drivers or staff before, just need to look back at the whole of the 2011 season.
You offer a contract, stick to it, it's went on long enough, starting from last season too. It was only a matter of time the partnership ended, especially when the guys been driving his butt off the past two years for you, and even racing when he had back problems.
It seems that Lotus have suffered the worst, first with the PR, and now probably unlikely to achieve higher than 4th in the constructors.
If I were a driver in the market I'm not sure I'd even want to drive for Lotus with their rep...
Really? They've got the cash coming and a record of success. Why wouldn't you?
As has been pointed out in the press, lotus have had money coming for a long time, and it seems to persistently fail to materialise, so despite being a strong performing team, I would worry about longevity, and the longer the quantum situation is not resolved, the worse it will get.
That said, a Maldonado or Perez move would help them out, and enable them to keep up to speed.
That said, a Maldonado or Perez move would help them out, and enable them to keep up to speed.
Il_leone
World Champion
If Quantum have done the deal then it is possibly good news for the team because that means less influence from Genii capital who were never in it long term - they were waiting for the right buyer and probably underestimated just how expensive running an F1 team was
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The team since the fall out of 2009 have not really been Renault or Lotus - it has no identity of its own ... - its full of BS PR and cheap imitations - starting with Dani Baha with all his fanfare idea that branding Lotus would a great opportunity and Lopes saying Lotus a front running team but does not want to put his weight behind the investment
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Who is picking up the tabs for the team's debts ?? - Lopes has a right nerve to say Kimi we want you to stay for another year in a competitive car ( despite not getting paid yet !)
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The team since the fall out of 2009 have not really been Renault or Lotus - it has no identity of its own ... - its full of BS PR and cheap imitations - starting with Dani Baha with all his fanfare idea that branding Lotus would a great opportunity and Lopes saying Lotus a front running team but does not want to put his weight behind the investment
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Who is picking up the tabs for the team's debts ?? - Lopes has a right nerve to say Kimi we want you to stay for another year in a competitive car ( despite not getting paid yet !)
I'm not sure how much money Quantum is bringing to the table but I am sure 18 million quid of it will have to go straight into Kimi's pocket so a massive dent in the coffers before they even get started, but I suppose the 20 mill Maldo would bring will leave them a couple of million to play with they may be able to buy a decent motor home with that...
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Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime
Rookie
Considering my name, I should be supporting what Raikkonen has done, but I can't really. He is showing himself to be the arrogant, self-centred, high maintenance Prima donna (i.e. Formula 1 driver) that he is.
He's bloody quick, and he may be a very personable guy to his friends, but he's not handled this well in my opinion; and his salary demands are really crass considering his lifetime earnings relative to those of his unpaid mechanics.
As for Lotus? Wheeler-dealer car salesmen.
As for F1 in general? This is bullshit. When the 4th best team can't secure a future for itself, something is wrong with the Formula. Formula 1 is rotten to the core, and in that core is Bernie the worm.
He's bloody quick, and he may be a very personable guy to his friends, but he's not handled this well in my opinion; and his salary demands are really crass considering his lifetime earnings relative to those of his unpaid mechanics.
As for Lotus? Wheeler-dealer car salesmen.
As for F1 in general? This is bullshit. When the 4th best team can't secure a future for itself, something is wrong with the Formula. Formula 1 is rotten to the core, and in that core is Bernie the worm.
No-one forced Lotus to agree the terms that Raikkonen wanted. They understood that it could cost them a lot of money to buy success and went for it. Now they complain about it.
Ecclestonemay be is the worm in the apple but how long will F1 last when he goes? The teams are incapable of agreeing but all push their selfish agenda. Hopefully it will implode and a series worthy of supporting and spending a fraction of what is thrown at the sport will rise from the ashes. But it will need to dump at least half the current teams and go to fewer non-motorsport countries.
Ecclestone
I suppose, should they take Maldonado on, his PDVSA sponsorship will at least cover the Carbon Fibre bills at Lotus - unlikely to push them towards the front of the grid though...
Il_leone
World Champion
Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime It was an offer on the table for Kimi with incentives if he scored more points he would get extra bonus on top of his salary by Lotus ( Genii Capital)
The team also to sell him the drive and convince him they are competing to win and no doubt going for the driver's championship so they should have worked out that if he had a good season he would have achieved around 200 pts plus ( all world champions have won with over 200pts) that it would be 10m euros or so
the fault lies with Genii Capital - no driver would be impressed with that treatment - why should Kimi risk his life and put an extra ounce of effort when he does not seem valued by his employers
The team also to sell him the drive and convince him they are competing to win and no doubt going for the driver's championship so they should have worked out that if he had a good season he would have achieved around 200 pts plus ( all world champions have won with over 200pts) that it would be 10m euros or so
the fault lies with Genii Capital - no driver would be impressed with that treatment - why should Kimi risk his life and put an extra ounce of effort when he does not seem valued by his employers
Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime
Rookie
My principle complaint with Raikkonen has always been his assertion for pay in the face of there being no money to distribute to those who I consider to be more deserving of that money.
Who should get paid first? Should the team give Raikkonen $20 million and then plead poverty when it comes time to pay everyone else? And should Raikkonen assert his right to payment, if he is a higher-priority creditor than his fellow employees, in such a situation.
Make no mistake, I am not debating whether he can do so or not. If he has a contract that states he should get paid 'x' from 'y' by time 'z', then anyone is fully capable of exercising that right. Whether that is an ethically or morally correct position to take is a completely different question. Whether he is in possession of such a contract is another, particularly the stipulation regarding when he is to be paid.
Lotus and Genii have clearly operated in a manner that I would consider to be unprofessional. Making promises, retracting those promises, issuing new assurances; you don't behave this way in a professional environment without severely impairing your reputation.
In my opinion, Raikkonen has also acted in an unbecoming manner. Like Lotus, he is not fulfilling the covenants of his contract. Many people in the US and Brazil would have bought tickets specifically to watch him race. And he's doing so for reasons that are motivated by selfish petulance and convenience.
He's really got down into the mud and slung it proper this time. No "keeping Mum about the issues" as per his Ferrari exit. I wonder how quiet and professional he would have been if Ferrari hadn't paid him off. Given he appears to be driven by money exclusively, my guess is his mouth would have been flapping like a loose sail if the incentive to shut-up had not been provided.
Unfortunately, some of the fallout has stuck to his reputation, which is already not stellar. His actions suggest that there will be no employer beyond his contract at Ferrari, as those with the money to afford his demands might not be willing to accept those demands. And I doubt he will care, because he's pocketed the better part of $250 million.
That's REAL capitalism right there. Maximise your personal utility at the expense of literally everything else around you. And don't give a shit while doing it. Nice.
By the way, I don't hate the guy. I just find this incident a bit reprehensible, and neither party is blameless.
Who should get paid first? Should the team give Raikkonen $20 million and then plead poverty when it comes time to pay everyone else? And should Raikkonen assert his right to payment, if he is a higher-priority creditor than his fellow employees, in such a situation.
Make no mistake, I am not debating whether he can do so or not. If he has a contract that states he should get paid 'x' from 'y' by time 'z', then anyone is fully capable of exercising that right. Whether that is an ethically or morally correct position to take is a completely different question. Whether he is in possession of such a contract is another, particularly the stipulation regarding when he is to be paid.
Lotus and Genii have clearly operated in a manner that I would consider to be unprofessional. Making promises, retracting those promises, issuing new assurances; you don't behave this way in a professional environment without severely impairing your reputation.
In my opinion, Raikkonen has also acted in an unbecoming manner. Like Lotus, he is not fulfilling the covenants of his contract. Many people in the US and Brazil would have bought tickets specifically to watch him race. And he's doing so for reasons that are motivated by selfish petulance and convenience.
He's really got down into the mud and slung it proper this time. No "keeping Mum about the issues" as per his Ferrari exit. I wonder how quiet and professional he would have been if Ferrari hadn't paid him off. Given he appears to be driven by money exclusively, my guess is his mouth would have been flapping like a loose sail if the incentive to shut-up had not been provided.
Unfortunately, some of the fallout has stuck to his reputation, which is already not stellar. His actions suggest that there will be no employer beyond his contract at Ferrari, as those with the money to afford his demands might not be willing to accept those demands. And I doubt he will care, because he's pocketed the better part of $250 million.
That's REAL capitalism right there. Maximise your personal utility at the expense of literally everything else around you. And don't give a shit while doing it. Nice.
By the way, I don't hate the guy. I just find this incident a bit reprehensible, and neither party is blameless.
I don't see how he is "not fulfilling the covenants of his contract". I assume the contract says he is being paid to drive. He has been driving, but, apparently, hasn't been getting paid. Therefore, to me, it seems that he has fulfilled his part of the bargain and the other party has not. I don't see how his refusing to drive in the remaining races violates the contract, which has already been broken by Lotus.
And while on the one hand, sentimentally I agree that the mechanics etc should be paid first, on the other hand, Kimi, like all drivers is risking his life in the performance of his job, which the mechanics, most obviously are not. That huge difference has to entered into the equation of who gets paid when.
And while on the one hand, sentimentally I agree that the mechanics etc should be paid first, on the other hand, Kimi, like all drivers is risking his life in the performance of his job, which the mechanics, most obviously are not. That huge difference has to entered into the equation of who gets paid when.
Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime
Rookie
Yes, but do we know when he is to be paid. When are Lotus considered to be in arrears? All I know for sure is Raikkonen up and left without completing the season, and therefore his contract.
Using that reasoning marshals (and others) should be paid as much or more than Kimi, but since they volunteer I guess we don't need to examine that argument of yours too carefully.
Risking one's life has no material bearing on the order in which debts are honoured, unless stipulated in the contract as such, so I don't consider it to have any bearing on the actual relationship and transaction of events that has taken place in this specific case.
I'm pretty sure Kimi has done PRECISELY what he is allowed to do given the stipulations in his contract, so he has assuredly done nothing legally wrong. But, as I have already been banging on in increasingly obvious and obviously irrelevant fashion, what one is allowed to do, and what one chooses to do are where law and ethics/taste diverge.
Judging from the responses I am eliciting, no-one really feels the same way about this situation. I'm not going to bother trying to convey my perspective further as I think it is fairly well established by now.
Using that reasoning marshals (and others) should be paid as much or more than Kimi, but since they volunteer I guess we don't need to examine that argument of yours too carefully.
Risking one's life has no material bearing on the order in which debts are honoured, unless stipulated in the contract as such, so I don't consider it to have any bearing on the actual relationship and transaction of events that has taken place in this specific case.
I'm pretty sure Kimi has done PRECISELY what he is allowed to do given the stipulations in his contract, so he has assuredly done nothing legally wrong. But, as I have already been banging on in increasingly obvious and obviously irrelevant fashion, what one is allowed to do, and what one chooses to do are where law and ethics/taste diverge.
Judging from the responses I am eliciting, no-one really feels the same way about this situation. I'm not going to bother trying to convey my perspective further as I think it is fairly well established by now.
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