Partisan support in F1

[snowy]

I didn't like Michael Schumacher but my animosity has waned. I began to actively not like Sebastian Vettel because of his behaviour in Turkey, First he caused an avoidable accident, then he stood by the side of the track demonstrating his contempt for his team mate.

Mark Webber is quite a strange Australian, had he been Alan Jones I very much doubt Sebastian would be alive today.

PS: Sebastian is going to have to do something pretty remarkable to get back into my good books.

 

[Brogan]

PS: Sebastian is going to have to do something pretty remarkable to get back into my good books.

How about back to back WDCs?

 

[sportsman]

Hmmmm partisan support.Natural really.Everyone wants to see their own countrymen doing well.
The biggest problem with partisan support it very quickly ends up being biased support.

 

[snowy]

How about back to back WDCs?

I absolutely hate to say it but that will make things far worse between he and I.

 

[ATL11]

I've followed F1 since the late 70's, have gone through many periods of Partisan. I've never really followed/loved a team, more I've followed the driver, but for me the love of F1 is more the car, it's set-up, it's specifications, it's beauty, the race, the politics, the intrigue, of course the crashes, F1 is many things but to list the Partisan:

We start with James Hunt (RIP), of course why not, to a 6 year old lad he was a hero, I had a 1/12 model of his McLaren M23 I could change the 4 wheels on it & he could drive.

Then Alan Jones, I remember writing a letter to Williams for some Fan Club stuff & got some crappy wonky photo copy stuff. Even @ 11 I thought it was crap & wrote a letter back saying I could do better job from my bedroom, I didn't hear a thing, but I still loved watching the metronome of Jones' driving.

Then we have Keke, probably my best driver, he could as they say 'banzai a car'. He topped 160mph for a lap round Silverstone (before all the plastic surgery) & what some will probably not know is he raised the fashion stakes with Driving clobber, the first to wear a yellow/blue suit away from the norm white/cream. His race with Elio @ Austria summed up the man, he just went for it.

After this we had period of domination in F1 (McLaren/Williams), so of course I followed Michele Alboreto (RIP), I was going through the underdog mentality & he suited this. He's probably the driver I've followed for the longest 87 to 94, I do call these my 1st doldrum years for partisan with F1, if only I knew then what I know now....

After this Damon Hill, just because I hated Schuey, it was that simple. He was flying the British flag for his dad & the country against the evil cheat (I know they are strong words I was in my 20's by then). I also loved the fact he went as World Champion to Arrows & we all remember the Hungarian GP don't we. Along with his win @ Spa in the rain for Jordan, he was just a good bloke.

After this I went through the 2nd Doldrum years which of course coincided with the evil empire that was Ferrari, Schuey & FIA official sponsored by Ferrari. I still watched F1, but as I've said before I was usually in the garden or washing the car for 5 past 1.

Since we've had Alonso & Hamilton who have released the grasp of the Evil Empire had on F1 & I've come out of my 2nd doldrum years. I just couldn't get to like Alonso as he comes across as a spoilt brat and Hamilton as he's just to manufactured for me. Yes I've cheered when Hamilton won & shed a tear for Jensen @ Brazil, but there is now no one I can follow & as they say love.

As I'm working towards my senior years in F1, for me it will be the car, the F1 car, not a team & not a driver. Though it is sketchy on the details @ my dad's garage in 1978 (I was 8) they had a car show on & I got to sit in what I believe was a TS20 Surtees Car, all I remember is the Orange & the big big wheels, this is where my love of the F1 car began.

Since then I've been chased off by Heathrow Security bloke called Colin, after jumping the barrier to take photo's of a McLaren MP4-21 car & it's rear difuser whilst waiting for a flight to Canada.

That's my Partisan for you for me it's the F1 car, but also a little background to my drivers.....

 

[KekeTheKing]

When it comes to National Partisanship for me it's quite simple, there is none. Sadly, this is because American drivers have become an endangered species in modern F1.

The facts are quite depressing. No American points since 1993! (Although Scott Speed did score at Australia 2006, only to be accused by Red Bull of passing DC under a yellow flag, and so was summarily penalized.) But officially, Michael Andretti's shining moment in F1, his podium at Monza 93, is the last time an American has scored an F1 point.

Want to talk wins? I don't, but I will. You have to go back to 1967 to find a natural born American that collected a GP win. Dan Gurney's win at Spa 67 in his AAR (Anglo-American Racer) is possibly the pinnacle for American involvement in F1. Of course we claim Mario Andretti, as he became an American citizen early in life, and with the pickings so slim for American drivers, we'll gladly accept the fact that we're credited with the 1978 World Championship.

There may be hope for the USA on the horizon though. Alexander Rossi has shown potential, winning twice for ART in GP3 last year. Maybe one day he'll bring my anthem back to the podium, but for now, give me "God Save the Queen" any day.

 

[MCLS]

In regards to American drivers, I don't think its helped with the inconsitency of the American Grand Prix over the years. There was no race in the 90's bar 1990 and 91. Indianapolis will be more famous for 2005 (and possibly 2002) than any actual racing but 2005 really left a sour note and no doubt contributing to F1 leaving after 2007. (Along with Ecclestones greed). If the Grand Prix in Austin turns out to be a great success we might see more American drivers in F1 in the years to come.

 

[Galahad]

Although I don't tend to get particularly patriotic when it comes to sport (don't mention the England football team!) I'm very much ok with people supporting drivers and teams for their nationality, and actually it's often quite nice to see. Silverstone and Monza wouldn't be the same otherwise!

One thing that does get my goat - and is not aimed at anyone on this forum at all - is when the old racial stereotypes begin to be wheeled out when talking about F1 drivers. The tabloid media are particularly guilty of this, but fans do it too. The "emotional Italian", the "cheating Spaniard", the "ruthless German" and so on. The whole "Our Brave Nige" business with Mansell was simply laughable, though I think he certainly encouraged it.

 

[siffert_fan]

I'm Australian, but, having lived in the U.S. for 40+ years, I can claim to be one of them as well.

I have no problem with people supporting someone because of their nationality, unless that support reaches the level of worship, which, unfortunately, seems to be case of many Hamilton and Alonso fans.

Disliking hypocricy, I also cannot stand it when one driver is condemned for an action that is overlooked in another, seemingly due to nationality. The vitriol aimed at Schumi while Senna receives adulation is, to me, the classic example.

I was a HUGE Lotus fan, as long as Chapman was alive, but lost interest after he passed. I liked Williams until the shameful way Frank treated Damon (I still haven't forgiven him). And McLaren were, IMHO, great UNTIL RD took control. To me, he was a carpetbagger, who treated the real founders of the McLaren team disgracefully.

I have been a fan of driving talent above all other considerations, with personality also entering the equation. Arrogance has never sat well with me, which is one reason Clark remains my all-time favourite driver. My other favourites include: Stewart, Gurney, Prost, Siffert, Pedro Rodriguez, Mario Andretti, Damon Hill, and Chris Amon (!). Of the current crop, Koby is the one I like best, with Rosberg and Nick being next. I like Webber for his digs at Horner last year, but he moans too much to suit me.

 

[teabagyokel]

Indianapolis will be more famous for 2005 (and possibly 2002) than any actual racing but 2005 really left a sour note and no doubt contributing to F1 leaving after 2007.

I think that is the essential problem with Formula One in the United States. The fact is a non-championship United States Grand Prix with 20 Bridgestone shod cars could have stopped the decline. But for the American public, unused to Formula One to be given an advert like that for the sport was an absolute disgrace.

2002 was a farce, and I don't think it helped, but quite frankly, the 2005 United States Grand Prix will hopefully be F1's lowest ever point. I don't care what you support, you can't support that.

Can I just say that Ferrari were as much to blame, if not most to blame, for that situation!

 

[siffert_fan]

TBY,

I agree 100% about the 2005 race. Can anyone imagine that farce being allowed to take place at, say, Monaco, or Monza (especially if Ferrari would have been one of the teams adversely affected)? My impression is that the F1 thinking was "it's only the Americans, so who cares?"

 

[KekeTheKing]

In regards to American drivers, I don't think its helped with the inconsitency of the American Grand Prix over the years.

This has certainly not helped matters, but I believe there are several factors that have contributed to the small number of Americans in F1 over the past 20-30 years. After all, the US GP was a fixture throughout the 70's and 80's at Watkins Glen/Long Beach/Detroit, with an astounding 3 races being held in the States in 1982. But, evidently this did not foster F1 dreams for many American youths, as the only guys that grew up in this era to become F1 drivers were a World Champions son and a guy that grew up in Italy in Eddie Cheever.

This topic is definitely worthy of some in depth analysis, and maybe during the three week break after China I will endeavor to write a longer piece dealing with the decline of American involvement with F1.

@Galahad - Your post made me instantly flash back to a couple James Hunt quotes. Someone was trying to pass Manfred Winkelhock in the ATS, and James said that from what he's heard, "Passing Winkelhock is like trying to deal with a German Tail-Gunner" He never shied away from taking a jab at Italy either, invoking the term "Italian Temperament" often when talking about Bruno Giacomelli, and once gave Andrea de Cesaris a back-handed comment when he said he had become "Less Italian" in his driving. Hunt was truly a piece of work!

 

[Andyoak]

I'm with galahad on this one... a bit of partisanship usually makes a race; even a dull race can feel great when the crowd is behind 'their' team / driver.

As this is also turning into a bit of a discussion on likes and dislikes well...
I've been a Williams supporter since the days of Alan Jones - back then I just thought their cars looked great (and they were winning) but I also wavered when it came to the 'pointy' Brabhams; they looked really cool.

McLaren have never really done it for me but James Hunt always looked cool and was far and away the best F1 commentator we've ever had; and as has been said he was very partisan. But his partisanship made him interesting even if you didn't always agree with him.

Nige left me cold, even though he was brought up a few miles down the road from me, but I loved to watch him race.
Senna has a hagiography around him that I just don't buy - a classic case of the James Dean's where he became god like because he died prematurely. As others have said, his track crimes were often worse than Schumacher's but we seem to have forgotten or forgiven them.

Damon Hill is woefully under-rated and seems destined to be bunched in with Button as having 'lucked' his championship. I don't agree with this view and really admire Damon and Jenson's smooth driving styles - an effortless turn of speed and both knew how to overtake.

I'm not convinced about Vettel yet but that's probably percieved personaility traits and I want to see him fight regularly to win position without a shunt.

... and of the new boys; well Koby's moves on Shuey last weekend made that race for me. Safe banzai racing is what makes F1 and long may it stay that way.

 

[Brogan]

Senna has a hagiography around him that I just don't buy - a classic case of the James Dean's where he became god like because he died prematurely. As others have said, his track crimes were often worse than Schumacher's but we seem to have forgotten or forgiven them.

Definitely a discussion for another thread but I completely agree.
Yes Senna had an immense amount of talent, but he also wasn't against employing a few dirty tricks which, as you've rightly said, would have had any other driver slated for.

 

[Andyoak]

PS... the new avatar is the go-kart we made at work and is fully made out of green oak (wheels / wings / brakes the lot). I think we hold the record for slowest descent at the shelsley walsh kart races.

 

[snowy]

Obviously I have no idea why F1 hasn't had more American drivers. But I've got one or two wild stereotypical speculations!

Could it be more to do with the fact that Americans are too friendly? They like to meet and talk to their drivers and the drivers like to meet and talk with one another.
Television time tabling of GP's in America must be a nightmare.
Advertising must surely be a serious handicap to popularising F1.
Bernie Ecclestone must surely demand stupid fees and prefer to deal with as few people as possible in any one country. The US probably irritated the bedevil out of him.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Television time tabling of GP's in America must be a nightmare.

For these first 3 races it's quite true that if you're not a die hard fan, then you're not going to flick the channel to SPEED at 2:30 in the AM by accident.

However, there is one benefit that this hemisphere enjoys in the early rounds. We get F1 on Thursday night! No waiting around till Friday for us. 10 PM practice tonight. I love back-to-back races in the Far East.

 

[McZiderRed]

There have been some great posts in this thread. I've really enjoyed reading them all...

I agree with the point that, generally, partisan support is not a bad thing, but it can be taken too far. When I rented a room in a friends house (back in the 1990's) I would find myself watching races with him. Whilst I shared a desire to see a British driver do well, for me it wasn't the end of the world if that driver didn't win, where as my friend would be in a strop! Watching a race with my friend began to ruin my enjoyment of the race. I would have preferred a certain driver to win, but as long as there was a good race, then so be it. The better driver won. Christ, how can you complain about that!? It's what we're all supposed to be watching, isn't it? Good racing is what it's supposed to be about...

Also, it's funny that the cheering of an underdog would change to the "hate the nasty foreigner" that beat my mates favoured, British, driver. E.G. my mate loved Schumacher whilst at Jordan and thought "ooh, good, plucky Schuie's got a drive at Benetton". As long as Schumacher was in a small team but doing well, he thought Schumacher was amazing. Fast forward a couple of years and Schumacher was seriously causing Damon problems when it came to winning races. My friend wasn't of the same opinion of Schumacher then. Let's just say it wasn't plucky Schui any more..!

EDIT: This is prior to the incident at Adelaide!

 

[Boyle]

Also, it's funny that the cheering of an underdog would change to the "hate the nasty foreigner" that beat my mates favoured, British, driver. E.G. my mate loved Schumacher whilst at Jordan and thought "ooh, good, plucky Schuie's got a drive at Benetton". As long as Schumacher was in a small team but doing well, he thought Schumacher was amazing. Fast forward a couple of years and Schumacher was seriously causing Damon problems when it came to winning races. My friend wasn't of the same opinion of Schumacher then. Let's just say it wasn't plucky Schui any more..!

EDIT: This is prior to the incident at Adelaide!

I think this is what is called success syndrome that some drivers seem to suffer from fans. For example, people liked to see Seb doing well (and winning!) at Toro Rosso - fast forward a couple of years and people have a serious dislike for him because he is dominating races. For me I'm not his number one fan (dislike is maybe a bit strong) due to his behaviour and the fact I find his racing poor, although I liked his aggression against Button at Oz. But there are many so called 'fans' who dislike because he is (1) successful (2) German or (3) successful and German. This is not aimed at anyone on this forum.

I am a Macca fan not because they are British but, as my avatar shows, Mika is and always will be my favourite driver as he was always entertaining and when I started watching he was there. Kimi took his place as the Flying Finn in my heart because he was the same. In 2007, I kind of wanted him to win the title because I felt his talent deserved it. Lewis and Kamui are my current faves because of their aggressive, entertaining styles.

I don't have a problem with partisanship - it's good to see fellow countrymen doing well and I will be cheering on di Resta during the course of his F1 career, barring any way of seriously annoying me! - but as has been mentioned this is always vulnerable to be turned into foreign stereotypes or even racism.

 

[Alonso_McLaren]

As a Chinese I am unable to have "partisan support"

To some extent I support Kobayashi and Sato. At least they are East Asians. But I hate the folks like Yamamoto and Ide.