Nick Heidfeld

Nick made his debut in F1 in the year 2000 for Prost Peugeot finishing his first season in the sport in 20th position scoring no points.

In 2001 he moved to Sauber and was joined in the team by rookie Kimi Raikkonen and scored a respectable 12 points finishing 8th in the WDC standings for the midfield team beating his rookie teammate. At the end of 2001 is was widely reported that Nick would replace retiring F1 legend Mika Hakkinen at Mclaren but he was left disappointed because it was infact his rookie teammate that landed the drive at Mclaren ahead of him.

So in the end he ended up spending another two seasons with Sauber paired with rookie Felipe Massa in 2002 scoring 7 points and in 2003 he was partner by fellow German Heniz-Harald Frentzen scoring 6 points.

In 2004 Nick swapped Sauber for Jordon and was partnered by both Pantano and Glock at the team scoring JUST 3 points.

In 2005 Heidfeld left Jordon and joined team Williams BMW partnering Austrailan Mark Webber after having a shoot out with Pizzonia for the second seat at Williams. Heidfeld went on to score 28 points that season for Williams. During that season he scored his first ever Pole Position and went on to claim 2 podiums.

In 2006 Heidfeld and BMW left Williams and took over the Sauber team. Heidfelds teammate to begin with that season was former World Champion Jacque Villeneuve, but after Villeneuve hurt himself at the German GP, he was replaced by rookie Robert Kubica. Heidfeld in 2006 scored 23 points.

In the seasons that followed Heidfeld stayed at BMW until their quit the sport back in 2009. In 2007 he scored 61 points, in 2008 he scored 81 points and in 2009 he scored 19 points.

In 2010 he joined Mercedes GP as a test and reserve driver but at the Singapore GP he was drafted in too replace Pedro De La Rosa at the Sauber team he partnered Kamui Kobayashi for the rest of the season scoring 6 points.

Now in 2011 Heidfeld is driver for the Renault Lotus team after former teammate Robert Kubica suffered a crash in a rally earlier in the year. He has currently scored 34 points so far and is partnered with former GP2 runner up Vitaly Petrov.

Heidfeld's Career has been very steady, but what has Heidfeld got/had missing in him to make top teams take notice of him?

 

[EvilWhippet]

3) People said he beat Kubica 2 years out of 3

He also actually did.

1st year you would expect him too given it was Kubica's first full season

Yeah and you'd expect Alonso to dominate the rookie Hamilton but things don't always go as expected. Kubica's since shown himself to a phenomenally talented driver and he already had half of 06 and plenty of testing, so don't be disingenuous and act as if he was some fresh from the cot, inexperienced virgin of a driver. Heidfeld beat him. Well done Nick.

2nd year Kubica was leading the championship and the team opted for a bizarre decision to support Heidfeld up to speed and concentrate for 2009 .... for your information his performance to Kubica post Canada was 33pts Kubica to 32 pts Heidfeld which included him benefiting from Hamilton's demotion

Probably because they believed they had a good thing going for 2009 and good could have done with the money from constructors points to support a title challenge. Robert lead to championship after Canada due to a couple of freak results, and it was a team decision that Kubica won that race and not Heidfeld.

3rd year ...name a race where Heidfeld made people grab attention then?

You could replace Nick's name in that quote with many driver's names and get nothing.
Name a race where Kubica made people grab attention then? I'd give him Brazil and nothing else.
Malaysia was very memorable for Nick, as were Belgium and Abu Dahbi, seen as you asked.

That Jordan season where he drove .. he did not have sponsors... Pantano had to bring sponsors into the team to earn his drive and part fund Heidfeld's wages as well

Quality drivers get paid.

As for his season at Lotus Renault - he's been talking up himself that he was still good enough to be world champion.

Show me a driver who doesn't believe he can be champion and I'll show you someone who shouldn't be in F1.

So here's a lifeline at being the team leader which he failed to deliver because he was up against Kubica as the benchmark from previous season to PEtrov

If you actually pay attention to races, rather than just stats, you'd know that he didn't fail to deliver. He got a podium on merit early on and was regularly running top five. He equaled Hamilton's 2012 Barcelona drive. He had loads of spare tyres but if not testing or qualifying and having all the tyres were an advantage, everybody would do it. He also didn't have the fastest car which Hamilton did. He drove a stormer in Canada before Kamui went banzai.

 

[EvilWhippet]

Slyboogy

10 years right - he's not exactly driven some cars apart from Prost 2000 and Jordan 2004

I still think if he was not German right BMW would not have made the bizarre decision to sort him out rather than back Kubica who was championship leader in 2008

I've already explained why this is bias nonsense.

He had MArio Thiessen to thank for resurrecting his career briefly from Jordan first to get him to Williams and then signing him up to BMW

He also has his own talent to thank, which more than justified Mario's decision.

I remember when Villeneuve was his teammate and then they threw Kubica a chance and the word was Heidfeld has suddenly found 0.5 seconds a lap..where was the speed previously

What's your point?

I am sure if Heidfeld was hussling the other 4 teams regularly like Kubica did in 2010 he might have been on the grid still

You realise he didn't have a drive for most of 2010, right?

 

[EvilWhippet]

Oh and I've never claimed he's great at PR, simply that he's a very talented F1 driver. Hardly a controversial opinion, and getting a drive based on PR over talent isn't something to be proud of.

Ron chose Raikkonen over Heidfeld and, as a massive Heidfeld fan, I'll tell you it turned out to be the right decision. Montoya less so.

 

[Olivier]

How does Heidfeld stack up against most recent team-mates (Kobayashi and Petrov)?

 

[EvilWhippet]

Well despite everything going against him, he was two points up on Petrov when they dropped him. Similar to Hamilton v Button in 2012, the two point margin flattered the lower scoring driver.

I honestly don't know who scored more out of him and Kobayashi.

 

[teabagyokel]

EvilWhippet - These are Heidfeld's career team-mate results.

 

[Brogan]

If I'm reading that correctly, he has never been beaten by a team mate, which is as much as you can expect from a driver.

 

[teabagyokel]

Brogan - Not quite, sorry. The driver to finish higher in the comparison is listed in the third column.

However, only twice in eleven attempts was Heidfeld beaten by the team-mate he started the first race alongside - by Frentzen in 2003 and by Kubica in 2008.

 

[The Pits]

He was beaten by Glock, Frentzen, Vettel, Kubica and Kobayashi, but has beaten Raikkonen, Massa, Webber, Kubica and Petrov.

The thing that sticks in my mind, is that Kubica was regularly seen (rightly so) as one of the leading lights in F1, yet Heidfeld seems to have been overlooked, certainly for the top drives. It does make you wonder if there is more to it than initial observations would indicate.

 

[Brogan]

Doh!
Must have had a bit of a moment there...I could have sworn I saw Heidfeld ahead on all of them.

Just ignore me...

 

[EvilWhippet]

He was beaten by Glock, Frentzen, Vettel, Kubica and Kobayashi, but has beaten Raikkonen, Massa, Webber, Kubica and Petrov.

The thing that sticks in my mind, is that Kubica was regularly seen (rightly so) as one of the leading lights in F1, yet Heidfeld seems to have been overlooked, certainly for the top drives. It does make you wonder if there is more to it than initial observations would indicate.

I feel like I should point out that Glock scored one more point over the four races they were together, but it was only four races. Hardly truly representative.

Also, he and Vettel were teammates for one race. It was Vettel's debut and Heidfeld out qualified and out raced him until he fell foul to a hydroulichs failure, so doesn't count as being beaten by a teammate in my eyes.

I should also add that, judging from a recent interview I read with Pedro De La Rosa, Sauber doesn't sound like an easy team to just slip into. Apparently there's a lot of simply blaming the drivers whenever something doesn't work.

 

[Il_leone]

EvilWhippet

1st year Heidfeld vs Kubica

He had the advantage of Bridgestone tyres knowledge when the single tyre supplier came in as Kubica previously testing on Michelin tyres

Alonso had been throughout his career apart from 1 season at Minardi on Michelins whereas Hamilton had been testing on Bridgestones plus Alonso had to adapt his style to the tyres

2008 so BMW allow Kubica the lead driver to win and then suddenly he is in the lead of the championship they don't want to back him more... I'd like to see Mario say that to Schumacher or Alonso then ?

Heidfeld was being labelled Leidfeld (Misery) by the German press for failing to keep up with Kubica

Up to Canada Kubica was the revelation and driver of the season ..he was getting the BMW amongst the Ferrari's and Mclarens



2009

Heidfeld Malaysia was more a fluke because he just decided to stay out and the red flag was out just as GLock passed him on the right tyres. he was not even quick in the conditions
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Kubica only finished behind in the championship because first race he decided to go all out for victory and crashed with Vettel going for a bold move in order to catch Button


My point about half a second a lap Heidfeld suddenly finds against Kubica ?

If he can go half a second quicker when a new driver was put in the other car then as team boss or onlookers why could not he do that throughout the season unless he realises his cushy position or status was suddenly under threat from a supremely quick driver ?

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He also has his own talent to thank, which more than justified Mario's decision.
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Only because he is German ... if he was not I don;t think MArio would have bothered asking Frank to consider him





Il_leone said: ↑

I am sure if Heidfeld was hussling the other 4 teams regularly like Kubica did in 2010 he might have been on the grid still​

You realise he didn't have a drive for most of 2010, right?
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I do I said if he was hussling the other 4 teams last year like Kubica did in 2010 then he might be still on the grid

The fact he was supposedly to be team leader against a pay driver with advance knowledge of Pirelli tyres having tested them

So Lotus Renault expected more from him with his CV and experience

EvilWhippet

The fact is someone else had to bring money in to pay him because he could not bring sponsors himself ...you would have thought Mercedes might have at least done something to help him

He's had 10 years to prove it and not delivered that is a lot more chances than some people who barely get 1 season in F1 and just as talented

How many drivers get backed by a car manufacturer like Mercedes?
Ron Dennis has seen him from the F3000 team in the West Mclaren livery to F1 testing and still did not consider him to be the future of Mclaren . The driver Mercedes backed to be the new Schumacher pretty much
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he spent too long at Sauber and ruthlessly was sacked after 2003 season...people were wondering what did he gain from staying in a midfield team going nowhere

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel

Heidfeld vs Button

Both are a safe pair of hands normally in bringing the car in the points and smooth style

Where there is a difference with Button there is an inner steel and he does not get flustered or downbeat like with Heidfeld who you feel does not cope well if he was the end of a thrashing from his teammate or the situation being against him

Heidfeld's early problems were he was cotton wooled because Mercedes backed him and he thought natural progression from F3000 to testing with Mclaren meant he could drive for Mclaren

He did not take the set back well and it clearly affected him for a season or two
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Button had to scrap his F1 seat and got harsh dose of reality at the back of the grid with Flavio managing him..the 2001 experience toughened him up and the season afterwards where he was alienated for not signing a new contract

 

[teabagyokel]

Where there is a difference with Button there is an inner steel and he does not get flustered or downbeat like with Heidfeld who you feel does not cope well if he was the end of a thrashing from his teammate or the situation being against him

I'm pretty sure Button gets pretty downbeat and flustered - the run from Bahrain to Spain this year and the whole of 2008 spring to mind.

 

[Slyboogy]

Il_leone

I think you should just give it up, you keep reiterating the same points all over again.

We get the point, you think Heidfeld wasn't good enough, while the majority of the people think the opposite.

 

[EvilWhippet]

 

[gethinceri]

Everyone needs a beard.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel

He was not labelled misery " Leidfeld" which is what the German press labelled Heidfeld

 

[Il_leone]

Slyboogy
A combination of not good enough and not managing his career well .. he aint the only one there are plenty of others - Barrichello, Fisichella, Truilli, Montoya etc

 

[Slyboogy]

Yes, yes, yes...like I said, we got the point.