Most Undeserved Grand Prix Winner

[teabagyokel]

I would like to thank Lewis Hamilton for making this thread possible. Because without Lewis Hamilton's overtaking move on Nelsinho Piquet at Hockenheim in 2008, this would be a foregone conclusion.

That second place, already standing out like a sore thumb on the record of the usually woeful Piquet, was achieved despite a complete lack of any reason why Piquet drove any better than the 18 drivers behind him, due to a strategy gamble that paid off. The rest of his career, save for an excellent 4th place at Fuji, was so bad that him deliberately crashing a car was written off because he crashed so often.

So in the absence of Piquet's win, which driver can call himself a Grand Prix winner more by luck than judgement. Who, amongst the 102 Grand Prix winners, never had a good performance in his career, including his victory.

I'll open the floor on this one, there would be a discussion on Most Undeserved World Champion, but other factors come into play.

Spoiler

Its Jacques Villeneuve.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Are we talking just guys who have won a single race and some how fluked that win or are you thinking of guys who may have won more than one race but had one that was a total fluke?

I guess if it's just one time winners then the man at the top of the pile must be Alisandro Nanini who was awarded his one and only win after Senna's disqualification at the 1989 Japanese GP.

And I guess in second place would be Panis who managed to somehow take a win for Ligiar at Monaco

but I can't think of any more than that.

If it's drivers who fluked a win in one of their races, I think Nelson's dad must be in with a shout for that title after taking his Benneton to victory thanks to Mansells waving at the crowd antics in Canada in 1991.

 

[MajorDanby]

Most undeserved race win? Why that has to be Alonso, Singapore 08 doesn't it?

 

[Muddytalker]

Oooh, as luck would have it, I've been wearing an anorak for the past few months and have compiled a spreadsheet of race winners for each season, to compare the number of winners per season, new winners in a season, winners/champions in the field etc...

So I have a lot of names to research, but will start off by nominating Sandro Nannini, recipient of winning Japan '89 following Senna's DSQ. Ironic really, as Alessandro was my favourite driver of the time, but he was no match for either Senna or Prost, and the Benetton was no match for the McLaren-Hondas. A little harsh perhaps as Sandro did have some good races before losing an argument with his helicopter, but without the collision and ensuing disqualification, he would have been winless.

Edit: Rats! C_a_T beat me to it!

 

[teabagyokel]

Most undeserved race win? Why that has to be Alonso, Singapore 08 doesn't it?

Yes, but I want the most undeserved winner. I don't think you could claim that Alonso deserves not to have a single win on his record. I want people who have won race(s) but are of the quality that they don't deserve to have won any!

 

[Brogan]

Oooh, as luck would have it, I've been wearing an anorak for the past few months and have compiled a spreadsheet of race winners for each season, to compare the number of winners per season, new winners in a season, winners/champions in the field etc...

I'd be interested in seeing those stat's if you ever get around to posting them.

 

[Muddytalker]

I'd have to figure out how to do it first, but when I get some free time.

Maybe during the next GP, that'll give us 90 minutes of spare time

 

[Brogan]

I could actually pull them off the database in about 2 minutes but quite frankly, I can't be arsed

 

[siffert_fan]

I would have to say Brambilla.

Nannini frequently showed excellent speed, so I can't say that I rate his winning a race as a fluke.

 

[teabagyokel]

How about Kovalainen? In two years of utmost mediocrity at McLaren he did little, scoring 3 podiums to Hamilton's 15, and winning only the Hungarian GP in 2008, on traditional McLaren territory, after a late Massa engine failure and Hamilton off with tyre issues.

His career at McLaren has included being beaten in a straight fight by a Toro Rosso, being beaten by Alonso in a (rubbish) Renault, both BMWs and both Ferraris in a WDC winning car, and beggering up the best strategy of the lot at Monza in 2009, to being a whole pit-stop behind his team-mate and 2 other cars on sub-optimal strategies and losing out to Alonso and both Brawns on the same strategy.

 

[Muddytalker]

I could actually pull them off the database in about 2 minutes but quite frankly, I can't be arsed

Without listing the drivers, this is what I've compiled for race winners in the season (This Year), 1st time winners (New), current race winners (Racing) and racing champions (Champions). I then broke up the years arbitrarily in to 'eras' to give averages for each time period. I believe it corresponds quite well with the Overtaking Analysis threads, in that the number of race winners in a season rose steadily to the mid 70's-early 80's, then dropped dramatically with the end of ground effect, the full use of turbos, etc, held steady but low during the emergence of technical advances, and has now started to rise again recently when the seasons aren't dominated by just 1 or 2 drivers/teams.

Year					This Year	New	Racing	Champions

2010					1		11	4

2009					6	1	11	3

2008					7	3	9	2

2007					4	1	9	1

2006					5	2	10	3

2005					5	0	10	2

2004					5	1	10	2

2003					8	3	8	2

2002					4	0	9	2

2001					5	2	9	3

2000					4	1	9	3

1999					6	1	9	4

1998					4	0	9	3

1997					6	2	8	2

1996					4	2	6	1

1995					5	3	4	1

1994					4	0	5	1

1993					4	1	6	2

1992					5	1	6	1

1991					5	0	9	3

1990					6	0	9	3

1989					6	2	8	3

1988					3	0	8	2

1987					5	0	8	2

1986					5	1	12	4

1985					8	2	11	4

1984					5	0	10	3

1983					8	0	12	3

1982					11	5	11	3

1981					7	1	10	2

1980					7	3	12	3

1979					7	1	14	4

1978					6	2	13	3

1977					8	3	13	3

1976					7	1	11	2

1975					9	3	9	2

1974					7	3	10	3

1973					5	2	9	4

1972					5	1	10	4

1971					6	3	10	4

1970					7	2	12	5

1969					5	1	10	4

1968					7	1	11	5

1967					6	2	11	4

1966					5	1	13	5

1965					4	2	10	5

1964					5	2	11	4

1963					3	1	10	3

1962					4	4	8	2

1961					5	3	7	1

1960					5	2	7	1

1959					6	4	3	0

1958					6	1	7	1

1957					4	2	7	1

1956					5	3	6	1

1955					4	3	5	2

1954					4	0	5	2

1953					5	2	4	3

1952					3	2	3	1

1951					6	4	2	1

1950					3	3		0

				Average	5.41	1.70	8.78	2.55

Current							11.00	4.00

Post Schumacher			05-	4.67	1.40	10.00	2.50

Schumacher			00-04	5.20	1.40	9.00	2.40

Technical Era			94-99	4.83	1.33	6.83	2.00

Back to N/A			89-93	4.00	1.00	7.60	2.40

Turbo Era				83-88	5.67	0.50	10.17	3.00

Wings and Ground Effects		75-82	7.75	2.38	11.63	2.75

Cosworth Dominance			67-74	6.00	1.88	10.38	4.13

British Dominance			58-66	4.78	2.22	8.44	2.44

Early Days			50-57	4.25	2.38	4.57	1.38

 

[Muddytalker]

How about Kovalainen? In two years of utmost mediocrity at McLaren he did little, scoring 3 podiums to Hamilton's 15, and winning only the Hungarian GP in 2008, on traditional McLaren territory, after a late Massa engine failure and Hamilton off with tyre issues.

His career at McLaren has included being beaten in a straight fight by a Toro Rosso, being beaten by Alonso in a (rubbish) Renault, both BMWs and both Ferraris in a WDC winning car, and beggering up the best strategy of the lot at Monza in 2009, to being a whole pit-stop behind his team-mate and 2 other cars on sub-optimal strategies and losing out to Alonso and both Brawns on the same strategy.

Winner!

 

[Brogan]

Interesting stuff Muddy
Worthy of its own thread in the Stat's forum I would say.

And yes, I second the vote for Heikki

 

[teabagyokel]

The winners of one Grand Prix are



and Jarno Trulli, Heikki Kovalainen and Robert Kubica.

Amongst these, I shall exclude Parsons, Wallard, Sweikert, Flaherty, Hanks, Bryan, Ward and Rathmann as Indy drivers.

How about Luigi Fagioli, his single win at Reims in 1951 was a shared drive in which he drove 24/77 laps? Fangio won the race, Fagioli got the credit!

 

[FB]

If the question is who I think is the most undeserved Grand Prix Winner and the list could be endless - Thierry Boutsen (remember him? No, thought not) David Coulthard, Eddie Irvine, Mark Webber - all these drivers, to my mind, need/needed a significant car advantage to be able to win a race. If we limit it to drivers with 1 race win I'd have Nannini, Brambilla and Jochen Mass on my list.

 

[snowy]

Jarno Trully winning the jewel in the crown in 2004 really takes the bisquit for me. Yes he deserves his pole positions and over a single lap he is an exceptional talent. But he has proved more than any other driver in the history of F1 that there is a profound difference between a fast driver and a quick racing driver.

 

[genji]

I remember Thierry Boutsen. He was in Geoff Crammond's 1994 Grand Prix game.

In 1997, a season dominated by Williams and Ferrari, Coulthard won three races, one of which he kindly donated to Hakkinen whose own arse he showed to him throughout that season.

 

[gribbli]

If I remember rightly the stats I did on another thread for race winners of the last 10 years came to a grand total of 17 different drivers, with Mark Webber's average performance miles behind even the guy in 16th place.

If it's least deserving individual win then, not including the obvious Alonso one, how about when Schumi and Rubens went for the photo finish and Rubens 'accidentally' passed him just before the line?

 

[Brogan]

If I remember rightly the stats I did on another thread for race winners of the last 10 years came to a grand total of 17 different drivers, with Mark Webber's average performance miles behind even the guy in 16th place.

That would be this post: http://cliptheapex.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1074&start=30#p10441

 

[gribbli]

If I remember rightly the stats I did on another thread for race winners of the last 10 years came to a grand total of 17 different drivers, with Mark Webber's average performance miles behind even the guy in 16th place.

That would be this post: http://cliptheapex.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1074&start=30#p10441

Bloody good stats if I do say so myself I cant remember if I actually did those up until then end of 2009, either way I really should do a version of the 2nd table with all 17 drivers in it for reference sometime...