Mercedes switch focus.

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
In plain English this translates to "we have given up with this heap of junk" and are not going to waste any more time and money on it.

"Mercedes team boss Ross Brawn says his outfit will switch its focus to the 2011 car following the end of the summer break.

He said Mercedes will work on one more upgrade package that will be introduced during the Singapore Grand Prix, but admitted the main priority will be the new car once the summer break ends"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85836
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
You'd have to hope for Mercedes' sake, because the car from this team (in its various guises) has gone backwards every year since 2007. Hope the Merc money will prevent that this time, eh?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Whilst I doubt they can catch Red Bull, Ferrari or McLaren, they're not that far in front of Renault.
They could find themselves finishing behind them which would have a significant impact on the prize money received.

The chart below shows the trend for both teams. There's not a lot in it...

 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
"TBY said:

You'd have to hope for Mercedes' sake, because the car from this team (in its various guises) has gone backwards every year since 2007. Hope the Merc money will prevent that this time, eh?

You've confused me now Mr Yokel, wasn't this the team that built the car that Jenson Button won the Drivers Championship in last year and brought Brawn the Constructors title as well?
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
FB said:
"TBY said:

You'd have to hope for Mercedes' sake, because the car from this team (in its various guises) has gone backwards every year since 2007. Hope the Merc money will prevent that this time, eh?

You've confused me now Mr Yokel, wasn't this the team that built the car that Jenson Button won the Drivers Championship in last year and brought Brawn the Constructors title as well?


I think I know the point he is trying to make. Brawn was a one hit wonder but the team as a package has generally been heading in the wrong direction. They had to make massive cuts to their budget and staff when Brawn took over and even though the car they produced for the start of 2009 was a engineering masterpiece the progress wasn't able to be sustained throughout the year due to the budget and staff restrictions and I think RB did the right thing selling the package onto Merc.

It will take time for them to get up there but the number of bad seasons they have competed in are far outweighing the good.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Not going to argue with that. Both BAR and Honda made some dreadful cars that got progressively worse over the years until RB lumped up one day and spent £300 million of Honda's cash to make a pretty unique race car. This season appears to be SNAFU, although if Honda had had half of Mercedes results this season in their last season (if that makes sense) I doubt they would have walked away.

p.s. Does anyone else type Hinda instead Honda? No? Just my fat fingers then
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
FB said:
"TBY said:

You'd have to hope for Mercedes' sake, because the car from this team (in its various guises) has gone backwards every year since 2007. Hope the Merc money will prevent that this time, eh?

You've confused me now Mr Yokel, wasn't this the team that built the car that Jenson Button won the Drivers Championship in last year and brought Brawn the Constructors title as well?

What I mean Mr. B, is each car has gone backwards through the season: e.g.

2007: Bad to Worse
2008: Bad to Worse
2009: Wonderful to Good
2010: Good to Decent

in contrast to other teams last year:

2009:

Brawn: Wonderful to Good
RBR: Good to Wonderful
McLaren: Worse to Good
Ferrari: Decent to Good
Toyota: Good to Yo-yo
BMW: Decent to Worse to Decent
Williams: Decent
Renault: Decent with Alonso, Bad with Piquet/Grosjean
Force India: Low speed Bad, High Speed Wonderful
Toro Rosso: Decent to Bad to Decent
 

Bullfrog

Rookie
I still think next years car is going to be pretty good, able to challenge for wins at least but probably not good enough to mount a significant championship challenge. Brawn is the key for me, when he had Honda money to spend the car was a beast and would have dominated even more of the season had the team not fallen apart forcing them to wedge the wrong engine into it and leaving them with little to no development cash/scope. The takeover came a bit too late for the extra finance to help with this years car (hence the half baked update of last years model) and now that he has (presumably) a few fat sacks of Mercedes cash I'm fairly confident that the results will be much better, plus of course he's making it to a certain 'Schu-print' that he must be pretty familiar with.

Lets also remember we had this story early in 2008 as well when he decided to halt development and concentrate on the next years Honda, and that didn't turn out too badly did it.
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
Personally I don't see how stopping development on this years car is really going to help them much. The two main areas of change of likely to be concentrating around the blown diffusers, and they would benefit from continuing that throughout the remainder of the season. Obviously however, only a single decked diffuser next year though.

My point being, that with major rule changes you can understand how switching focus will be a major benefit, can the the same be said of next season however?
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Next season there will be KERS.Plus the cars will be 20kg heavier at 640kg.Both of these will have a major impact on car design.
KERS will probably mean a longer wheelbase, with the no refuelling still in place.
 

Jru

Points Scorer
Contributor
One point could be that seeing as Brawn had a double decker diffuser to start with they may have far less in terms of development of a single level diffuser. Most other teams made one for 2009 before playing catch-up on the double diffuser. Could this be relevant to the need for extra development? :thinking:

One other slightly off topic question - where have they got to with deciding on tyres for next season? I assume a reasonable amount of time will be required for teams to adjust to new rubber? That could leave less time for other development? :thinking: :thinking:

Edit: Thanks for the link on tyres below
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
2011 is a very different ball game.Many of the answers can be found here.Add in the return of KERS and that is a lot of development work.

"The FIA’s World Motor Sport Council has agreed a number of significant changes to the Formula One regulations. Among them are a new single tyre supplier, aerodynamic revisions designed to boost overtaking, a ban on F-ducts, and the return of a 107% qualifying rule."

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10935.html
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
sportsman said:
2011 is a very different ball game.Many of the answers can be found here.Add in the return of KERS and that is a lot of development work.

"The FIA’s World Motor Sport Council has agreed a number of significant changes to the Formula One regulations. Among them are a new single tyre supplier, aerodynamic revisions designed to boost overtaking, a ban on F-ducts, and the return of a 107% qualifying rule."

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10935.html


Not really, especially if you make a comparison between the 2008-2009 season. The only real aerodynamic changes are the single diffusers. Also, the standardised weight distribution for the cars (in order to minimise impact of the tyre change, and prevent manufacturers hitting the magic number for balance). Granted they may need some development in the KERS department, but I do not see this as a major area, especially with the increased minimum weight negating weight distribution issues found in 2009, and off the shelf units from other teams
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
MajorDanby said:
sportsman said:
2011 is a very different ball game.Many of the answers can be found here.Add in the return of KERS and that is a lot of development work.

"The FIA’s World Motor Sport Council has agreed a number of significant changes to the Formula One regulations. Among them are a new single tyre supplier, aerodynamic revisions designed to boost overtaking, a ban on F-ducts, and the return of a 107% qualifying rule."

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10935.html


Not really, especially if you make a comparison between the 2008-2009 season. The only real aerodynamic changes are the single diffusers. Also, the standardised weight distribution for the cars (in order to minimise impact of the tyre change, and prevent manufacturers hitting the magic number for balance). Granted they may need some development in the KERS department, but I do not see this as a major area, especially with the increased minimum weight negating weight distribution issues found in 2009, and off the shelf units from other teams

And the larger fuel tanks now required.Thats a major difference to 2008-2009.The larger fuel tanks was the reason for this seasons cars having longer wheelbases.
The KERS unit has to be mounted on the drivetrain.Room has to be made for that.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
One other reason for Mercedes stopping developing this years car is money. I recall reading somewhere that Mercedes were reducing their funding by 10 or 20% for next season so Brawn has to make a decision whether to spend the money developing this years car or concentrate on next.
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
sportsman said:
And the larger fuel tanks now required.Thats a major difference to 2008-2009.The larger fuel tanks was the reason for this seasons cars having longer wheelbases.
The KERS unit has to be mounted on the drivetrain.Room has to be made for that.


Agreed, but unlike the rule changes of 2008-2009, and 2009-2010, the changes for 2010-2011 are minor in comparison. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that this seasons changes were small scale.

FB, agreed this is a more likely explanation, however I think the goals of improving this years car, and developing next years, are less mutually exclusive than is actually being made out.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
ErnieBeccs said:
Are we sure the problem is with the car, could it be it`s the driver`s that are the issue, I`m not convinced the car is so bad. :thinking:

Its a good point EB, and it is always a really difficult question to ask. What we have to do is look at the drivers' previous form, and by that I of course mean Rosberg.

2006Williams817Webber14
2007Williams49Wurz*11
2008Williams813Nakajima15
2009Williams77Nakajima20
[td]Year[/td][td]Team[/td][td]WCC Position[/td][td]WDC Position[/td][td]Team-mate[/td][td]Position[/td]

*Wurz for 16 races, Nakajima for final race (Did Not Score)

I think what it shows is that in all but his first season, Rosberg has been ahead of fairly uninspiring team-mates, and thus it becomes difficult to see how much he extracted from the car. Unfortunately, he has come up against another uninspiring team-mate.

What we need is for Heidfeld to have a couple of races in the car as the guy is normally a good barometer of where a car is.
 

Flood1

Rookie
My view is that the car has enough miles on it now that they know what's wrong with it. By their own testimony the weight distribution is wrong. That is a prob with the tub and the fuel tank/driver placement. I think they have tried everything they can to fix the problem and it can't be fixed by bolt on bits here and there. And, apparently the revised suspension (longer wheelbase) didn't help either.

If the tub has a fundamental flaw, there is nothing to be gained by continuing development.

Regarding the new rules, the new tire supplier is the biggest unknown and is very significant. The increased weight and the Kers is very significant. The loss of the D difusser is very significant. Other than that, everything is the same.

But almost no 2010 data will be useful.
 
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