Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[Slyboogy]

It's a shame the Whitmarsh thread has been closed but it is worth mentioning that for the second season in a row they've been overtaken by Ferrari as Redbull's main rivals.

The championship table doesn't lie, McLaren have been ahead of Ferrari for three seasons in a row including this one.

After one race where McLaren had a difficult day doesn't necessarily mean that they are lagging behind Ferrari for the rest of the season, one major upgrade can change a teams position on the grid, and as far as I can remember, McLaren haven't had a 'massive' upgrade recently, expect it soon.

 

[Quintessentially]

Sorry Championship table doesn't lie about what? Competitiveness? Generally yes but the picture here is not that straight forward. Alonso did finish ahead of both McLaren drivers last year and won more races. There is no question who ended the season with the more competitive car. It is also clear McLaren have a more balanced driver pairing and this gives them a cumulative advantage that often masks the underlying issues. I haven't scrutinized all the available data but I think it is fair to say that the Ferrari has been on par and at times surpassed McLaren for pure pace since Monaco and my opinion is neither based on one race nor your apologist view about "massive upgrade". Whether you agree or not, it is clear Ferrari have wiped out any advantage they may have had and are now Redbull's main challengers.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I was at Silverstone and Alonso in his Ferrari was unbeatable. As we know from 2007 that he is just able to match Lewis, this means the Ferrari has jumped up at least close to RBR level, way beyond Lewis' Mclaren. Ferrari have engineered that car since it got lapped a few races ago in the way McLaren used to be capable of.

They have bullied their way engineering wise, regulations wise to the podium.

This is a team not happy to be an also ran and willing to fire whoever might be culpable

 

[Speshal]

@ cfs - one could argue that because of the bugger's muddle of the regulations and the changeable conditions that were prevalent at Silverstone, Ferrari managed to make hay whilst the rain fell as it were, with a reversion of the rules for the very next race will the Scuderia still be ahead?

Every team will have updates for Germany and I don't doubt that McLaren may have seen where they've gone wrong, I think Silverstone just happened to suit the red car in that particular set of conditions, I'll be the first to be proved wrong at the weekend when Massa wins

 

[The Pits]

Cfs, just a small point, but have ferrari been more successful than mclaren over the last few seasons??

 

[Cookinflatsix]

McLaren are now a proper manufacturer

The 12c looks like a real marker for the British car industry, maybe the way forward, small car firm making a product that actually works well compared to the German and Japanese makers
Ferrari and Mercedes are also on the landscape for 160k plus supercars

Ferrari are eager to reproduce the MS epoch, Alonso is there at great expense, nothing will be spared to get them winning

McLaren are in danger of tamely handing over the podium with Merc looking over their shoulder, Merc used to be a partner and ally, they are now a competitor even before the engine deal ends

Yes lets see what happens in the next few races but I am afraid that the current cars struggle with lack of downforce has been masked by the OTEBD and the drivers ability. Even as we return to Valencia spec, Ferrari had updates when we didn't. Unless the team bring updates that for once are ready to work from P1 in Germany Ferrari should consolidate their stellar progress

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Jonathan Neale confirming that the OTEDB ban cost them 0.7 secs at Silverstone:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93192

He said it's "fact", not "opinion".

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Yes, I like Jonathan Neale

I like the cut and thrust of his message

Neale insisted McLaren could overhaul its current points deficit to Red Bull – Hamilton sits 95 points behind Vettel in the drivers' standings, while McLaren lies 110 points adrift in the constructors' – but admitted the team would have to be aggressive and take risks to do so.

"F1 isn't something you can play safe in, it's about taking risks and getting the balance right," he said. "Clearly when you are coming from behind, as we and Ferrari are, then you have to work very hard at that.

"In terms of car development, it means that we have to push very hard to close the gap. It is about taking risks.

Interestingly he mentions the gap from Vettel to Lewis and not to Jenson. This is a leader who knows how to get the best out of his assets.
Lets hope the F1 team can adopt this bullishness and rally round, cut mistakes and show the paddock how its done

 

[Road of Bones]

Did anyone see the Evan Davis thing on BBC2 last night? Fascinating piece on the MTC & the MP4-12C (had to laugh at Evan's face during his lap round the Top Gear track). The little sequence where he walked through a huge white corridor, then opened the door at the end to be confronted by another identically-sterile corridor was also most amusing. To then learn that the MTC employs different floor coverings to progressively clean your foorwear as you head towards the manufacturing area somehow didn't surprise me in the slightest...

 

[The Pits]

If I could point out, he didn't mention the gap at all, that was inserted by a journalist writing the piece up, a small, yet important distinction.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

We don't know this. The journalist would insert (précis) something in line with the interview content

Probably he hasnt reported the whole phone-call verbatim, he has had to edit so that the cut and thrust is communicated

Therefore its entirely logical to expect that the mention of the gap to Lewis is in line with the rest of the interview

Neale insisted McLaren could overhaul its current points deficit to Red Bull

I am sure he would have elaborated on this

Anyway even if its the journalist only, he has picked up the vibes from Neale, not listened to some gushing, tearful love song about how both drivers are equal and that mistakes will be eliminated from now

 

[The Pits]

Assumptions of assumptions? You pin your colours to the mast that this is a chap you like, so i can see why you would assume that he sings from you hymn sheet, regardless of the actual words that are written.

This is also a man who is in a position of authority over mw, so presumably has a say in his future, and in a couple of autosport articles shows his full support, so you support the man who supports mw.

personally, I believe that there may be more to it, however, I have seen no compelling journalism on the subject, other than to say there is no story. whatever is there at the moment is supposition, and latched on by people who want it to be true.

if mw is not the man for the job, I would hope that McLaren would arrive at this decision employing due process, rather than trial by press.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

In this era of Business manager Team boss, with watchers above at Owner board level, Horner, Domenicali, Whitmarsh particularly

the nice guys like MW who play by the business school manual, who complain about the competitors sharp practice, who try their hardest, who approach any business as a business, who make all employees feel good, who buy pizza for the whole staff every dress down Friday, might finish first.

Mclaren have become a manufacturer like Ferrari, trying to roll their noble F1 pedigree into a profitable business, selling 160k plus supercars, competing with Porsches costing much less, and Ferraris looking far sexier. This team has to be seen to be a cut above.

McLaren and its MTC with its cold efficiency is creating an image for Brit supercars, German like efficiency and perfection and a touch of Brit cleverness, gadgetry and style. All of this is fledgling and is at risk from the F1 team that for the last 2 years are constantly associated with 'we are making too many sloppy errors, we will fix this, we are not the best'

I think Ron has allowed his successor way too much rope, and needs to work a system where the TP is not allowed to do it all his own way, but has to step from business school to street corner. Like Bernie, or Ron, or FW earlier, or even (forgive me) EJ

Dont mess up the best driver to make a guy a few years from retirement happy

 

[ExtremeNinja]

In this era of Business manager Team boss, with watchers above at Owner board level, Horner, Domenicali, Whitmarsh particularly

the nice guys like MW who play by the business school manual, who complain about the competitors sharp practice, who try their hardest, who approach any business as a business, who make all employees feel good, who buy pizza for the whole staff every dress down Friday, might finish first.

Mclaren have become a manufacturer like Ferrari, trying to roll their noble F1 pedigree into a profitable business, selling 160k plus supercars, competing with Porsches costing much less, and Ferraris looking far sexier. This team has to be seen to be a cut above.

McLaren and its MTC with its cold efficiency is creating an image for Brit supercars, German like efficiency and perfection and a touch of Brit cleverness, gadgetry and style. All of this is fledgling and is at risk from the F1 team that for the last 2 years are constantly associated with 'we are making too many sloppy errors, we will fix this, we are not the best'

I think Ron has allowed his successor way too much rope, and needs to work a system where the TP is not allowed to do it all his own way, but has to step from business school to street corner. Like Bernie, or Ron, or FW earlier, or even (forgive me) EJ

Dont mess up the best driver to make a guy a few years from retirement happy

Every thread I turn to I see the same argument going on and there is always one guy at the heart of it. We had a whole thread on this and it was locked because the discussion was exhausted. OK, this is the McLaren thread, but surely you have got your point across by now.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Every thread I turn to I see the same argument going on

Every thread? Lets not get carried away

The post that you quoted is a response to the previous one above, which is a response to the previous etc etc

Yes the topics have parallels but this is topical and discussions happen on forums

The fact that the same guy is at the heart of the threads you turn to might be because you are following this particular guy. I suggest you select the option on your member page to stop following a particular guy, and hey presto, no more listening to a guy with an interest in debating a particular subject with anyone interested in said subject

 

[Quintessentially]

Yes, I like Jonathan Neale

I like the cut and thrust of his message

Neale is running out of excuses like Whitmarsh. Let's not forget what happened at Valencia where they blamed their poor pace on circuit configuration. This time it was the OTB ban. Both smokescreens aimed at deflecting attention from the simple fact that they've been caught napping.

 

[Road of Bones]

Every thread I turn to I see the same argument going on and there is always one guy at the heart of it. We had a whole thread on this and it was locked because the discussion was exhausted. OK, this is the McLaren thread, but surely you have got your point across by now.

I'm with the Ninje on this one - there is an element of stuck-record syndrome going on here CFS. Yes - we understand that you are frustrated that McLaren are not providing Lewis with the service that you feel he deserves, but constantly beating the "Whitmarsh out" drum is not only becoming monotonous to read, it is also making you look slightly desperate. To have the same debate over and over again seems fairly pointless, particularly when you are swimming against the tide of the majority opinion - do you enjoy railing against perceived injustice that much?

 

[Cookinflatsix]

.

Hopefully after the next race, F1 racing itself will provide another topic that invites debate with polar viewpoints from members

 

[Road of Bones]

Indeed CFS! I look forward to seeing horns locked on a new issue...

 

[Quintessentially]

I'm with the Ninje on this one - there is an element of stuck-record syndrome going on here CFS. Yes - we understand that you are frustrated that McLaren are not providing Lewis with the service that you feel he deserves, but constantly beating the "Whitmarsh out" drum is not only becoming monotonous to read, it is also making you look slightly desperate. To have the same debate over and over again seems fairly pointless, particularly when you are swimming against the tide of the majority opinion - do you enjoy railing against perceived injustice that much?

I can understand the frustrations but he's not forcing anyone to read it. Best we keep the ad hominem arguments out.