Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[Road of Bones]

So - according to the CTA "Ray's Perversity" effect (as first noted by TBY), every time Ray openly tells McLaren to back Lewis for the win, Jenson goes out and wins the next race. Anyone fancy a tenner on JB to win at Suzuka?

Other than that, Lewis should memorise Ray's last line and repeat it ad nauseam this weekend, until the media give up and stop asking him about it - we might be able to get back to talking about racing again! How good would that be?

 

[teabagyokel]

So - according to the CTA "Ray's Perversity" effect (as first noted by TBY)

Was it? I'm not sure!

Other than that, Lewis should memorise Ray's last line and repeat it ad nauseam this weekend, until the media give up and stop asking him about it - we might be able to get back to talking about racing again! How good would that be?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

So - according to the CTA "Ray's Perversity" effect (as first noted by TBY), every time Ray openly tells McLaren to back Lewis for the win, Jenson goes out and wins the next race.

Aha ha!

Um, I didn't suggest that McLaren openly back Hamilton for the Japanese Grand Prix win. [Indeed with the WDC basically over for 2011, a McLaren win is a McLaren win irrespective of which one of the two is scoring it.]

What I suggested is that they provide 100 percent support - whether it be psycological or media-related - to the visable asset currently under attack. (Button being the other visable asset).

I suggested that Ferrari are waging psycological warfare on a McLaren asset and that they (McLaren Group) ought to close ranks and make sure that the asset (in this case Lewis) is protected from the war that's being waged upon it (i.e. the intent in this case is to destabalize or mentally unhinge Hamilton to make him a less effective weapon).

My motto is:

If they try to destabalize one of our assets, then they try to destabalize us as a whole.

McLaren should have none of it. My motto would apply equally for Button.

An asset is an asset. Period.

 

[RasputinLives]

I suggested that Ferrari are waging psycological warfare on a McLaren asset and that they (McLaren Group) ought......

.......to declare chemical warfare on Ferrari!!! Go on Ron its time to wield the WMD's!! We know you've got em.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

.......to declare chemical warfare on Ferrari!!! Go on Ron its time to wield the WMD's!! We know you've got em.

My friend, you already know that i'm right. Chemical warfare and WMDs have nothing to do with it.

What else do you call this Massa-led witch hunt against Lewis if not 'mind games' or an attempt at mentally unhinging the driver (i.e. psycological warfare in F1 terms)?

Kindly tell us.

 

[FB]

Are we talking about McLaren and "dodgy dossiers" in the same context. Cost 'em a few bob last time...

 

[teabagyokel]

What else do you call this Massa-led witch hunt against Lewis if not 'mind games' or an attempt at mentally unhinging the driver (i.e. psycological warfare in F1 terms)?

Or an attempt to get the governing body to do so? If they're not doing this, they should be!

By the way Ray, everyone knows a good motto should be in Latin, so I've google translated it:

Si nituntur destabalize noster elit, nituntur destabalize nobis totam.

You could have a logo:

(Seriously, it'd make a good avatar!)

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

"Si nituntur destabalize noster elit, nituntur destabalize nobis totam"

(If they try to destabalize one of our assets, then they try to destabalize us as a whole)

TBY, Very Kool!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Maybe I should have added their dream plan- Marlboro was for Andretti to be an F1 star but ...it did not help when he spent the winter at home rather than going testing back in 1993 and he would rather fly from USA to every race than stay in Europe with the team...

Yes but that has nothing to do with Mercedes insisting on having Mansell's fully formed bum in the car for 1995.

Andretti - apart from, as you say, not testing in the winter and not basing himself out of Europe/England - was benchmarked in a new series for him against arguably the fastest driver ever to sit in an F1 car.

You do understand that McLaren were trying very hard to keep Senna from leaving after 1993. They even had some secret stuff happening with Lamborghini power which could have enticed Senna into staying for 1994 but it didn't work out.

Andretti was a side show for Marlboro, not the main show. The main show was Senna. Not helping Andretti was the fact that Hakkinen - McLaren's test driver - was putting up some lightning fast times in between races.

1994 with Hakkinen-Brundle & useless Peugeot engines weren't satisfactory enough for Marlboro.

Mercedes only came on the scene late in 1994 because Peugeot were hopeless.

"Si nituntur destabalize noster elit, nituntur destabalize nobis totam"

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Let's play a game...

I'll provide odds for the followinhg (I have not looked at the bookies...these are strickly my own and for fun):

8 - 3 .... Lewis takes Pole at Suzuka

9 - 2 ... Jenson takes Pole at Suzuka



5 - 3 ... Lewis posts at least 2nd fastest time in Q3 at Suzuka

10 - 3 ... Jenson posts at least 2nd fastest time in Q3 at Suzuka



3 - 5 ... Lewis out-qualifies Jenson at Suzuka

7 - 4 ... Jenson out-qualifies Lewis at Suzuka



4 - 7 ... Lewis beats Jenson in the Japanese GP

3 - 2 ... Jenson beats Lewis in the Japanese GP

Lastly:

9 - 4 ... A Mclaren victory in Japan

 

[Brogan]

McLaren have confirmed Button has signed a multi-year contract.

http://www.mclaren.com/page/vodafon...ning-jenson-button-to-new-multi-year-contract

So that just leaves Hamilton, or A. N. Other.

 

[RasputinLives]

They have? Thought that one might go on a bit longer. They released any details of the deal Bro?

*Edit* - heres the article http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/10/12595.html and no mention of who much he's getting. Be interested if he's level pegging with Lewis now wage wise.

 

[Il_leone]

Yes but that has nothing to do with Mercedes insisting on having Mansell's fully formed bum in the car for 1995.

Andretti - apart from, as you say, not testing in the winter and not basing himself out of Europe/England - was benchmarked in a new series for him against arguably the fastest driver ever to sit in an F1 car.

You do understand that McLaren were trying very hard to keep Senna from leaving after 1993. They even had some secret stuff happening with Lamborghini power which could have enticed Senna into staying for 1994 but it didn't work out.

Andretti was a side show for Marlboro, not the main show. The main show was Senna. Not helping Andretti was the fact that Hakkinen - McLaren's test driver - was putting up some lightning fast times in between races.

1994 with Hakkinen-Brundle & useless Peugeot engines weren't satisfactory enough for Marlboro.

Mercedes only came on the scene late in 1994 because Peugeot were hopeless.

"Si nituntur destabalize noster elit, nituntur destabalize nobis totam"

Mclaren actually tried out the following engines to replace Honda

Renault
Lamborghini
Chrysler as well

Senna's mind was already made up that he desperately wanted to drive for Williams seeing how Prost was only just manage to stay ahead of him in 1993

Andretti was Marlboro influenced but Ron did say he was a future world champion potential but it ended badly. I go back to the guy somehow thought it was okay to skip testing and spend his time at home when he is a rookie !

Mclaren quit their 3 year deal with Peageot and switched to Mercedes for 1995

As for Button signing for Mclaren...that is good news for Massa who has one less rival supposedly after his drive but bad news for Rosberg who must be getting anxious at Mercedes they turn it around next season as they are not helping his career move forward

Button has done the smart thing I suspect this is his last F1 contract

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

As for Button signing for Mclaren...that is good news for Massa who has one less rival supposedly after his drive but bad news for Rosberg who must be getting anxious at Mercedes
Button has done the smart thing I suspect this is his last F1 contract

Ya. I agree with all three sentiments with respect to Massa, Rosberg and Button.

I'm sure McLaren are holding the right cards too, though.

1. They have the best driver line up in F1; and

2. I'm sure they hold some options for 2014 (i.e. the 3rd year). If they build world beaters, they might even have Vettel knocking on the door assuming Vettel is only interested in records.

Red Bull can't keep building the fastest or co-fastest race cars forever.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Monday, October 3, 2011 - Note To McLaren:

...

The media are trying to hype the Massa-Hamilton Singapore issue...Hamilton should only answer questions the following way:

"The Team are here to win the Japanese Grand Prix. Whatever has happened in the past is in the past and we're here to focus only one winning this race. Penalties were given in previous races and were served. We drive on and focus only on the future."

...Only the above quote to be repeated over and over again if questioned by reporters.

Looks like 'Our' Lewis has been reading CTA and taking the very sound advice being offered!

"I don't really have anything to say about it. I am focusing on this weekend and it is a shame that we are still talking about the previous race, but that is the way it goes. For me, I am focusing on having a good weekend. I am over it, it is in the past. I had my penalty so I don't feel I owe anyone.

"I don't think we have anything to say. I had my penalty. I don't think we have anything else to discuss."



Son, if you need any more advice, i'm here for you!

Good luck in Japan, my boy!!!

And oh...You can use this on the family crest:

"Si nituntur destabalize noster elit, nituntur destabalize nobis totam"

 

[Porceliamone]

Any posts specifically about McLaren and not Lewis Hamilton in this thead?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Any posts specifically about McLaren and not Lewis Hamilton in this thead?

There's just as good a chance McLaren (or Ferrari) make either the fastest or co-fastest car for 2012.

It's rare that you have one constructor making such a car for a 4th year in succession. And it's equally rare for McLaren not to be truly challenging for the WDC for the 3rd year in a row (in 2010, they probably only had the 3rd best car on the grid over the whole season eventhough they finished 2nd in the WCC (Massa underperformed in the Ferrari)).

Another part of 2011 is that Red Bull have gotten an unusually large number of things right at the races and it looks like Vettel had horseshoes coming out of his arse. They've been quite lucky and that doesn't happen every year.

In contrast, McLaren - the team - have gotten a few things wrong at some of the races this year...and were also hampered by the FIA at Silverstone with the one-off, 1 race rule change.

Under such circumstances, theoretically pushing Hamilton into a Red Bull contract 2012 could just as easily back-fire.

It's not a 'no-brainer'.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

By the way, a friend told me Mika Hakkinen is going to be leading a McLaren asault on Le Mans.

I haven't been able to find anything about it.

Anyone here heard anything?

 

[Il_leone]

I am sure Mclaren will learn the lessons of this year to carry onto the next year now

Newey says next years Red Bull is going to be revolutionary...he always likes to push the boundaries but it comes with risks as always

Ferrari closed up on Mclaren and surpassed him them when Newey was there ..partly because Adrian lost some respect for his famous U -turn from Jaguar and partly because Mercedes decided they wanted to run the engine building in house rather than let Ilmor build it for them in Britain back then which lead to a lot of failures

I expect the gap to Red Bull next year to be closer

Difference is Mclaren have made mistakes this year and have paid for it whereas Red Bull have and usually if you are Vettel they've got away it like in Monaco when both made pit stop howlers..difference Red Bull suddenly were in prime position on wrong tyres and Mclaren it messed up Hamilton's race

 

[Galahad]

Without having itemised them all, it seems to me that McLaren have made a lot more mistakes than Red Bull in total this season.