Kewee
Race Winner
I'd love to see them return to their original orange like the Can Am cars. McLaren really would look back to their history if they did that.
McLaren to switch to Honda engines
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
Il_leone
World Champion
Slyboogy
He would not have gone for that move if he finished in Monza the race before and had a decent points cushion in the first place because he established himself a lead at Spa between himself from Vettel, Button and Alonso with only Webber closest. What happened at Monza was the cause of going for a do or die move
He would not have gone for that move if he finished in Monza the race before and had a decent points cushion in the first place because he established himself a lead at Spa between himself from Vettel, Button and Alonso with only Webber closest. What happened at Monza was the cause of going for a do or die move
You can make his name from the letters in the title, that's why no-one has mentioned Coulthard or Hakkinen.
Il_leone
World Champion
Kewee I was responding to a post from Slyboogy about how Mclaren Mercedes have lost a lot of titles in the past
In relation to when they were battling for the drivers championships
when tMercedes took over the engine building from Ilmor
2000 - Mercedes fault- Hakkinen's engine at Indy
2003 Mercedes fault - Raikkonen engine at Nurburgring
2004 - numerous engine failures to compensate for 2003 in not racing the new car
2005 - Mercedes - numerous engine failures
2007 - drivers and management
2010 - Hamilton did throw it away - I've made my point on it whether you agree or not
2012 - Mclaren's fault as in the team
Mclaren Mercedes have underachieved as a combination
only two of those are under Whitmarsh's stewardship before anyone starts getting the knives out for him
In relation to when they were battling for the drivers championships
when tMercedes took over the engine building from Ilmor
2000 - Mercedes fault- Hakkinen's engine at Indy
2003 Mercedes fault - Raikkonen engine at Nurburgring
2004 - numerous engine failures to compensate for 2003 in not racing the new car
2005 - Mercedes - numerous engine failures
2007 - drivers and management
2010 - Hamilton did throw it away - I've made my point on it whether you agree or not
2012 - Mclaren's fault as in the team
Mclaren Mercedes have underachieved as a combination
only two of those are under Whitmarsh's stewardship before anyone starts getting the knives out for him
I think we should bear in mind that these engines are prototypes and, as such, are liable to fail a little more than road car engines, Alternatively Mercedes could build a 300bhp motor and their cars could trundle round at the back behind the Caterham's and Marussia's.
What hasn't been mentioned is that Honda's return will bring back Japanese interest in F1 which can only be good for the sport. This is the first season since the 80's we've not had a Japanese team, engine or driver in the sport and as Japan is the most F1 crazy country outside of europe its a bit of a blow.
I'm pretty sure Hondas return will bring about a Japanese driver coming back to the grid too. Prob not with Mclaren though but I'm sure it'll be a condition with whichever second team they sign up.
I'm pretty sure Hondas return will bring about a Japanese driver coming back to the grid too. Prob not with Mclaren though but I'm sure it'll be a condition with whichever second team they sign up.
I'd like to see Kobayashi back. However he was closely alligned with Toyota, I wonder if that would count against him. Either way he remains the best Japanese option.
Why Kobi didn't get a drive this year is beyond my comprehension.....
Simple case of not having the sponsorship behind him.
Il_leone
World Champion
the deal is apparently a technical partnership not an exclusive partnership so Mclaren are seriously putting their future reputation on line
They won;t struggle the way WIlliams have been despite reforming their partnership with Renault.
The deal leaves Honda opportunities to supply other teams engines as probably required by the regulations so Lotus, Williams and Sauber are known to be interested.
So F1 awaits the return of a legendary combination
They won;t struggle the way WIlliams have been despite reforming their partnership with Renault.
The deal leaves Honda opportunities to supply other teams engines as probably required by the regulations so Lotus, Williams and Sauber are known to be interested.
So F1 awaits the return of a legendary combination
I am not sure that there are that many issues to address, although that would depend on your point of view on certain aspects. Certainly they have retained many issues from when they last won the WDC, and were regularly running at the front, so these are not a fully limiting factor.
Could there be anything in the Mercedes link which has hampered them in the last few years? financially, buying back the Merc shares? I would assume that the input from Mercedes would have dwindled significantly too, as they move from being a partner to a customer.
Maybe a new partnership is all that is required, to allow a relief of pressure in some areas?
Could there be anything in the Mercedes link which has hampered them in the last few years? financially, buying back the Merc shares? I would assume that the input from Mercedes would have dwindled significantly too, as they move from being a partner to a customer.
Maybe a new partnership is all that is required, to allow a relief of pressure in some areas?
Did Mercedes contributed that much to the car development? McLaren have, for me, been steadily declining over recent years (since Adrian Newey left really) and this year they have really hit the bottom. There appears to be an attitude where "good enough" is accepted from a technical perspective, drivers, team management, in fact all aspects of the team, whilst others have invested more in attracting the best McLaren have become mediocre and their best and brightest have jumped ship.
Maybe.
Mercedes had a stake in McLaren, and would no doubt have shouldered the costs in many areas, and possibly manpower too, couple that with the money that McLaren needed to raise to buy back the Merc shares, it all has to make a difference. Not the only difference, granted, but it could not have had no impact at all.
Mercedes had a stake in McLaren, and would no doubt have shouldered the costs in many areas, and possibly manpower too, couple that with the money that McLaren needed to raise to buy back the Merc shares, it all has to make a difference. Not the only difference, granted, but it could not have had no impact at all.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
I do get the impression, particularly after having visited there, that McLaren has got just too corporate and stifled in its thinking and that maybe the less-rigidly organised teams are freer to innovate. Having said that the glory years were when Ron was at the helm (of the F1 team) and he's probably the least flexible team boss there is.
Il_leone
World Champion
rufus_mcdufus lucky you for getting into the Woking HQ
I agree that Mclaren have instilled this corporate feel about them and seek perfection which makes them less rigid to innovate and think on their feet
The difference seems to be Ron Dennis' persona when he was there he would let you know he was in charge and he was an absolute perfectionist hence his aloof nature when he speaks.
Whitmarsh .. some of the things the drivers have said ..initially Button started out a bit more honest outspoken but then Hamilton in 2011 and 2012 I am sure in the days of Dennis that would have not happened and it would have been dealt behind closed doors
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FB
I have said Mclaren and Mercedes have underachieved in all honesty 3 drivers titles and 1 constructors is a poor return for the combination.
I don't think they will decline rapidly as they have Middle Eastern backers. The concern I see is who is the future successor to that team as team principal because it seems likely they will need to answer to these backers and be caught in potentially a power struggle with Ron Dennis ( if he is still there)
I am not convinced Perez is the man to lead Mclaren 's future and someone Honda would want to really work with and worship. Jenson with his association in the past with them and his girlfriend obviously is good for marketing side however he is getting on and i am not sure if he still has the hunger in 2015 when he has spent 15 years in F1 by then
I agree that Mclaren have instilled this corporate feel about them and seek perfection which makes them less rigid to innovate and think on their feet
The difference seems to be Ron Dennis' persona when he was there he would let you know he was in charge and he was an absolute perfectionist hence his aloof nature when he speaks.
Whitmarsh .. some of the things the drivers have said ..initially Button started out a bit more honest outspoken but then Hamilton in 2011 and 2012 I am sure in the days of Dennis that would have not happened and it would have been dealt behind closed doors
------------------------------------------
FB
I have said Mclaren and Mercedes have underachieved in all honesty 3 drivers titles and 1 constructors is a poor return for the combination.
I don't think they will decline rapidly as they have Middle Eastern backers. The concern I see is who is the future successor to that team as team principal because it seems likely they will need to answer to these backers and be caught in potentially a power struggle with Ron Dennis ( if he is still there)
I am not convinced Perez is the man to lead Mclaren 's future and someone Honda would want to really work with and worship. Jenson with his association in the past with them and his girlfriend obviously is good for marketing side however he is getting on and i am not sure if he still has the hunger in 2015 when he has spent 15 years in F1 by then
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
FB McLaren in decline? 2009 was a bad year, but even then they finished 3rd and won 2 races. In 2010 and 2011 they finished 2nd, winning 5 and 6 races. In 2012 they finished 3rd, winning 7 races. So since 2009 they won more races every year.
They started of badly this year, but they also did that in 2009. It's waaay to early to write them off as a team in decline.
From 2009-2012 only RBR did better. Even if this year is a bad one, there's not really a reason to worry yet.
They started of badly this year, but they also did that in 2009. It's waaay to early to write them off as a team in decline.
From 2009-2012 only RBR did better. Even if this year is a bad one, there's not really a reason to worry yet.
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