McLaren and its handling of two number ones
- Thread starter Cookinflatsix
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And I quote the Telegraph;
"I was surprised because the team told me I would have my best lap taken away from me,” Hamilton said. “So I thought ‘OK I can have a race from seventh.’ I never had it in my mind that I would start from the back."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...-from-back-of-the-grid-into-eighth-place.html
"I was surprised because the team told me I would have my best lap taken away from me,” Hamilton said. “So I thought ‘OK I can have a race from seventh.’ I never had it in my mind that I would start from the back."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...-from-back-of-the-grid-into-eighth-place.html
Fair enough, but that doesn't say when the team told him, it may have been at any point between crossing the finish line after qualifying, and lining up on the grid the following day. Maybe that is what the team were expecting.
Not sure I see any logical or illogical reason to say anything other than the truth, I mean you'll find out anyway, so why bother to hide it? That makes no sense any way you slice it.
Not sure I see any logical or illogical reason to say anything other than the truth, I mean you'll find out anyway, so why bother to hide it? That makes no sense any way you slice it.
What I think it means, which I guess is what Brogan is alluding to, is that Mclaren told Hamilton (before the actual verdict) that's the penalty they were expecting to receive.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Shows how much trust LH has in his team, he trusts them to be professional and capable, I think LHs management might push for a change in team boss if they dont want their meal tickets image tarnished
I must not have comprehended this in my fit of rage, but when Whitmarsh admits that he knew (on the out-lap) that at the bare minimum Lewis' final lap would be excluded, he knowingly allowed his driver to push beyond the limits anyone else approached this weekend just for shits and giggles.
No wonder his praise is bordering on groveling. This is a disgusting and defining episode from top to bottom.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
And now that its been spoken about and looked at closely it doesnt bode well for Whitmarsh and his future managing top drivers in a team
He knew he ran the risk of DQ as Mclaren of all people will have had reason to read up on this rule. He knew that there was not enough fuel, he knew aborting would mean 6th place
So he therefore;
A)Tried to pull a fast one by hoping no one would notice and so the last lap would count
or B) he took a seriously stupid gamble with ridiculous stakes
or C) he truly didnt know that the penalty for infringement is exclusion (I didnt know, but Im not a team boss who hired Sam Michaels just to help get the rules correct)
Combined with his admittance of an undervaluation of his main asset, lots of episodes where LH ends up getting highly risky and non commonsensical strategies, and decisions. Also explains the thinking behind the lack of any ability for the team to function outside preset courses and 'think on its feet'
He knew he ran the risk of DQ as Mclaren of all people will have had reason to read up on this rule. He knew that there was not enough fuel, he knew aborting would mean 6th place
So he therefore;
A)Tried to pull a fast one by hoping no one would notice and so the last lap would count
or B) he took a seriously stupid gamble with ridiculous stakes
or C) he truly didnt know that the penalty for infringement is exclusion (I didnt know, but Im not a team boss who hired Sam Michaels just to help get the rules correct)
Combined with his admittance of an undervaluation of his main asset, lots of episodes where LH ends up getting highly risky and non commonsensical strategies, and decisions. Also explains the thinking behind the lack of any ability for the team to function outside preset courses and 'think on its feet'
A
It's A, B, and C. The classic - D option - All of the Above.
I think if Martin Whitmarsh is under fire then Ron Dennis has to be underfire too. I mean he's the one who intrusted him with the job. He is the man at the top after all. If Whitmarsh has to take responsibility for the actions of the pit crew then ultimately Ron has to take responsibility for Martin.
Sad days for Mclaren. Sad Days
Sad days for Mclaren. Sad Days
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Ron had no choice but to hand over to his assistant of many years, a result of Mosely whipping himself into a frenzy (metaphorically) over the spy gate affair. Whitmarsh was not head hunted for this job, he got it by default and possibly a little prod on Rons back
Not sure I go for that. I agree Ron was pushed a little out the way but he's the boss he choses his replacement. Unless you're suggesting some sort of coup? Whitmarsh is just an employee right? Therefore Ron has had 3 years to replace him as Team Principle, bring someone else in to help or take more control now Mosely has left himself right? Even longer to assess Whitmarsh's leadership skills as he trained him up. I'm sure he had the ear of the Mclaren board.
Unless you're suggesting Whitmarsh has pictures of Ron in compromising positions and keeps his job by Blackmail then Dennis, being ultimately the man at the top, has to be equally responsible for letting this farcical management of the team you're describing to continue as Whitmarsh is for the actions of the wheel jack man and the fuel pump guy. Like you said you ultimately have to point the finger at the man at the top and the policies he has in place.
I never liked Ron Dennis but always respected him but you're argument about how bad Mclaren is being run has convinced me so much I'm starting to question whether Ron is really the guru he's cracked up to be.
Unless you're suggesting Whitmarsh has pictures of Ron in compromising positions and keeps his job by Blackmail then Dennis, being ultimately the man at the top, has to be equally responsible for letting this farcical management of the team you're describing to continue as Whitmarsh is for the actions of the wheel jack man and the fuel pump guy. Like you said you ultimately have to point the finger at the man at the top and the policies he has in place.
I never liked Ron Dennis but always respected him but you're argument about how bad Mclaren is being run has convinced me so much I'm starting to question whether Ron is really the guru he's cracked up to be.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Every corporation works best as a stand alone operational unit with its own staff and leadership
Whitmarsh is top exec at F1 Mclaren, Ron is head of Mclaren group including cars
Any chief exec worth his salt will have it in his contract that he makes the decisions and bears responsibility and reports to the board, Ron is on the board but so are his shareholders reps and MW, beyond agreeing at board level to ditch the exec there is nothing Ron or any other board member or owner do between board meetings except call emergency board meetings to pass resolutions like sacking the exec
Ron may have made mistakes but he built the team and has proven to be a success by winning things, Mclaren have never been such a joke, people make jokes comparing Mclaren to the car maker Yugo all over the web. Ron is a leader with a vision, he signed LH. Whitmarsh is not a leader or visionary just a middle manager good at helping run things not winning titles with the likes of Red Bull around
Can't blame Ron for handing over to his assistant, can't blame Ron for giving the assistant a few years breathing space, if there is no change soon and the idiocy and year 1 business student approach continues then you are right we will start to question Ron and his board
Whitmarsh is top exec at F1 Mclaren, Ron is head of Mclaren group including cars
Any chief exec worth his salt will have it in his contract that he makes the decisions and bears responsibility and reports to the board, Ron is on the board but so are his shareholders reps and MW, beyond agreeing at board level to ditch the exec there is nothing Ron or any other board member or owner do between board meetings except call emergency board meetings to pass resolutions like sacking the exec
Ron may have made mistakes but he built the team and has proven to be a success by winning things, Mclaren have never been such a joke, people make jokes comparing Mclaren to the car maker Yugo all over the web. Ron is a leader with a vision, he signed LH. Whitmarsh is not a leader or visionary just a middle manager good at helping run things not winning titles with the likes of Red Bull around
Can't blame Ron for handing over to his assistant, can't blame Ron for giving the assistant a few years breathing space, if there is no change soon and the idiocy and year 1 business student approach continues then you are right we will start to question Ron and his board
"Ron is a leader with a vision, he signed LH"!?
By the way, he signed Alonso, Mansell, Andretti, de la Rosa and Alliot as well.
By the way, he signed Alonso, Mansell, Andretti, de la Rosa and Alliot as well.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
This thread isn't about Alonso, Mansell, Andretti, de la Rosa and Alliot now is it?
It's about Whitmarsh and his current attempts to manage two stars, one of ththang whom he has just admited he didn't have the vision to recognise as great as Ron did
That's all I meant
It's about Whitmarsh and his current attempts to manage two stars, one of ththang whom he has just admited he didn't have the vision to recognise as great as Ron did
That's all I meant
When did he say that?
some greatness.
The rest is pure conjecture on your part, and the usual hyperbole.
I would be interested in the source of the quote too, as I would be interested in reading the entire article, if you could let me know where I can find it that would be great.
Edit: I just found the article in the Telegraph. a good article, I guess, indicating that Martin has seen something in Lewis he had not before. or that Martin is now grovelling because he loused up, or that Martin has been blind to Lewis' talent in the 13 years they have been working together.
Make of it what you will.
The rest is pure conjecture on your part, and the usual hyperbole.
I would be interested in the source of the quote too, as I would be interested in reading the entire article, if you could let me know where I can find it that would be great.
Edit: I just found the article in the Telegraph. a good article, I guess, indicating that Martin has seen something in Lewis he had not before. or that Martin is now grovelling because he loused up, or that Martin has been blind to Lewis' talent in the 13 years they have been working together.
Make of it what you will.
Josh
Champion Elect
I didn't know McLaren won so many titles the last few years with Ron
Also I find it amazing how a few people manage to spin a few words into something that hasn't been said at all.
Whitmarsh never said he only discovered how great Lewis was this weekend, he said some greatness he hadn't seen before, I'm sure everyone here knows what some means.
And he also said his admiration and affection for Lewis has been enhanced, so his admiration and affection has gotten bigger, it didn't suddenly pop up out of nowhere like many here are trying to claim.
After serious consideration the moderation team has decided to lock this thread as it was serving no really useful purpose and just turned into another Button vs Hamilton circular discussion. This wasn't, perhaps, the original intention of the thread but, unfortunately, this is what is has become.
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