Martin Whitmarsh

Well he's the man that's incharge at Mclaren but what do we all really know about the man named Martin Whitmarsh?

Well i can tell you that he has a degree in Mechanical Engineering. He started his career at British Aerospace (best known as BAE systems these days) as a structural analyst engineer at Hamble-le-Rice.

But in 1989 he was joined Mclaren as Head of Operations. In 1997 he was then promoted to Managing Directors role in which he was in charge of the F1 operation and it's partners and sponsors. In 2004 Martin was again promoted this time his position was CEO of the companies F1 operations.

It wasn't until the 1st March 2009 when Ron Dennis was stepping down from his position, as Team principal that Whitmarsh was promoted into that position.

Ever since Mclaren have had the following Championship standings since 2009:

2009: 3rd
2010: 2nd
2011: 2nd

All and all Whitmarsh's teams have been constitantly improving and he'll produce a championship winning team.

But why does Whitmarsh divide F1 fans opinions of him? Is it because he's not the loud and bouncing team principal that others are? Or is it the fact that he's not as good as Ron Dennis?

 

[RasputinLives]

How do you explain the Mika/DC situation? DC was quite clearly the quicker driver on occasions but was phased out, In fact at the European Grand Prix in 1997 quite famously Ron did a deal for Mika to take his first ever win with Williams in return for Not pressuring Villenurve off the track. At the time Mika was running behind DC and DC was ordered to pull over and let him through. DC had had by far the better season than Mika and still finished 9 points in front of him in the championship.

That was the last race of the season - in the first race of 1998 Mclaren were super dominant but Mika messed up and came into the pits when he wasn't suppose to which meant that DC was out in front. Despite towing the party line and saying he'd done it from some sort of honour, DC was ordered to move over and let Mika back in front - he did it Rubens like in the most obvious way.

Now it could be argued that those first 2 gifted victories gave Mika the confidence he needed to go on and fill his potential but ask yourself what do you think they would have done for DC? Ron was clearly showing favourites both off and on the track. I don't agree with it but I don't have a problem with it. Its his team. But to try and say Martin Whitmarsh shows blatent favouritism but Ron doesn't is silly. Martin too is a businessman and Jenson Button wouldn't be in the team unless he earned it on merit. I think if you take a look at his record you'll see that he has.

If I'm honest racecub I have to say I think you're a bit blinded by the fact your favourite driver is Lewis and if you reversed the situation with the comments on the drivers you wouldn't be sitting here saying you didn't like Whitmarsh but defending him to the hilt about how great he is.

The fact is that Lewis won his championship in 2008 and it was expected he'd do a 'schumacher' and dominate for years to come. It obviously didn't happen (it rarely does in F1 ask Alonso and Vettel) for various reasons and some hardcore fans needed to look around for someone to blame for this (we live in a blame culture society now) and the only different factor they could find was Martin Whitmarsh - combine that with them bringing in another British World Champion that ruffled feathers and you have your scapegoat and we've had slurs on his character of everything from him being a racist to questioning his sexuality.

Bit unfair on the guy who's just trying to do a job to the best of his abilities really ain't it? The woman who works behind the counter at the local Co-Op always talks friendly and smiles at me whilst she's always a bit off hand with the Mrs but people don't go round calling her a biggot for it.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think Whitmarsh is no worse a team principal than any of the others and a lot better than most, I wouldn't mind working for him.

 

[RickD]

RasputinLives - I can't like that last post enough..

 

[Mephistopheles]

Of course I've never forgiven that git Whitmarsh for leaving that bung in Jenson's radiator in Monaco 2010 or for not making sure his front right wheel was on properly at Silverstone last year.

 

[racecub]

Ok. Quite a few points to answer there. I'll try to answer them all at once without lots of quoting. Clearly my views amongst the people contributing to this thread are in the minority, but they are my views so I'll try to explain them and answer the posed questions.
Can I start with SLYBOOGY. I didnt know Whitmarsh had said that Ron Dennis favoured Hamilton. Do you have a source for that? I'd like to read more about it because it throws up some interesting questions. I realise Dennis had a special interest in Lewis, Lewis was an 'experiment' and Ron was cast somewhat in the father role. So I'd expect there to be a 'soft spot' . But if you're saying it went further than that I'd be very disappointed. IF, you are correct, it might explain some of Whitmarsh's behaviour towards Hamilton. I believe Whitmarsh was fond of heiki, cried when he won as he does for jenson. If he perceived favouritism to be an acceptable practise at McLaren he would have no qualms excersing his. On a personal observation I dont remember ever hearing Ron make disparaging remarks about Heiki in public, but I have heard Whitmarsh do this about Hamilton.
RASPUTINI You make some good points, and I agree with some of them, but not all, so again I'll try to expalin my thoughts.Starting with the Mikka / Coulthard era. I must confess that I was a supporter of neither driver though I preferred Hakinnen. I thought him more talented and liked him to beat Schumacher. Coulthard did little for me, and since leaving McLaren I think there have been a few sour grapes. But, not being a supporter of either drivers or team ( I was supporting Juan Pablo at Williams)I did not watch things as closely as I do now. If favouritism, was acted upon,to give one driver an advantage I'd be extremely disappointed.
Am I blinded because Lewis is my favourite driver? Blinded by what? There is no way I would defend Whitmarsh, he's incompetent.And his incompetence affects both of the drivers.
Lewis, being my favourite driver means I watch him very closely and I watch interviews with and about him, I pick up subtle things that I'd probably miss about other drivers I have less interest in. This is how my dislike of Whitmarsh has built up.Im not saying it doesnt happen elsewhere on the grid, I'm sure it does, but I dont watch the rest of the grid so closely.
I dont want Lewis to do a Schumacher. I want him to be rememebered for the outstanding talent he is not the amount of championships he engineered. I followed Lewis long before he explded on the F1 scene so his performances were no surprise to me.Of course it would be nice if the talent was rewarded with champonships but its not just about that. If he doesnt win a championship for whatever reason so be it, but for the team bos to try to belittle his talents for reasons of his own is unforgiveable to me (and maybe to other fans, so perhaps thats why people dislike him). I can forgive Whitmarsh's incompetence more than I can forgive his attitude to Lewis.
I dont want anyone to think I want any favours in the team for Lewis because I absolutely do not. I want him to win on merit. But I dont want him hampered. My dislike of Schumacher and Alonso is because they need favours to win. I dont want Lewis to have favours and I dont think Lewis wants them either...just a level paying field.

And on a final note. Whitmarsh may be very 'nice' to work for. He may be tyring to do the job to the best of his abilities, but in the high pressure environment of F1 it isnt good enough.

 

[Mephistopheles]

A couple of good points there racecub but like you said Ron was fond of Lewis maybe even treated him like a son, and maybe Whitmarsh was fond of Heiki and is fond of Button does this not mean that Ron and Martin are the same kind of people I.e. they both have and had their favourites?

I honestly don't see how you can differentiate between two things that are exactly the same.

I'm not saying it is but, could it not be possible that it is Whitmarsh that does not like to see unfairness in a team because he has witnessed it first hand under Ron's rule in the form of Ron's preferential treatment of drivers like Mika and Lewis?

Maybe Martin cried when Heiki won because Heiki was the underdog In the team and we all like seeing the Underdog win now and then don't we? And maybe he cried when Jenson took his first win because Martin was under pressure to prove that he had made the right choice in signing Button and not only from the team but from the press and his peers as well, we can all remember that everyone who had an opinion was saying that Button would get slaughtered by Lewis in his own back yard.

You say it was normal that Ron have a soft spot for Lewis because he was Ron's "experiment" well I say it is just as normal for Martin to have a soft spot for Jenson as he is just as much Martins project...

And there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Lewis and Jenson get treated equally in the team despite the fact that you keep alluding to the contrary.

"I dont want anyone to think I want any favours in the team for Lewis because I absolutely do not. I want him to win on merit. But I dont want him hampered. My dislike of Schumacher and Alonso is because they need favours to win. I dont want Lewis to have favours and I dont think Lewis wants them either...just a level paying field."

I don't think you want favours for Lewis but you seem to think that forces are at work at McLaren to allow Jenson to win or make Lewis lose, and you lay this squarely at Martin feet, you mention Alonso and Schumacher, so why aren't you fighting Massa's corner or criticising Stefano Domenicali? Where it is obvious unfairness abounds.

Lewis is not intentionally hampered by the team in my and many other people's opinion, also there have not been any rumours by people in the know that Lewis himself believes he is being hampered by the team..

If you have any evidence that he is then please produce it, then maybe my view of Martin will be changed.

 

[racecub]

Do I have any evidence that Lewis is being intentionally hampered? No, its a byproduct of a desire to see Jenson do well.
I can see where you're coming from with the comparison between Whitmarsh and Dennis. Both had favourites. Did they act upon their favouritism? Well we dont know. We're not privy to the internal decision making processes at Mclaren. But we do see Whitmarsh talking jenson up endlesly and being dismissive or disrespectful towards Lewis, Ive never seen Ron do that.

On Domenicalli and Massa I was livid when that swap was engineered and loudly applauded Smedley for not talking it lying down (I wasnt on this forum then) I think that contributed hugely to Massa's decline. I was equally vocal about the switched wings at Red Bull and was scathing about the way Schumachers team mates were treated.I think its wrong and though its a team sport its also an individual sport.Why am I not fighting Massa's corner? I did. But at the end of the day the guy I support is Lewis not massa so that, and the fact that the Lewis / Jenson/ Whitmarsh fiasco is topical, is why I'm more vocal about what happens at McLaren.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I am dead set against team orders but not necessarily against people having favourites as I have said it is just human nature you have your reasons for supporting Lewis and fair play to you, I have my reasons for supporting the drivers I support.

I know Martin sometimes gushes about Jenson but I have never heard him say anything disrespectful of Lewis quite the opposite in fact he only ever praises him, he even publicly supports Lewis when he does questionable things on track, in the stewards office and in interviews with the press. he backs Lewis to the hilt, where other team principals Briatore for instance may have sacked him.

It is probably because Lewis is such a great driver that he has still got his seat, so why would Martin not allow his talent be utilized to the full, now that really would be stupid...

 

[Josh]

racecub I'm just wondering, but why do you think Whitmarsh is incompetent?

 

[RasputinLives]

Josh that was going to be my question exactly.

racecub please explain why you think Martin Whitmarsh is incompetent and I warn you if you have come to this conclusion due to Mclaren tactical errors of late then I'll be able to prove that 70% of all team principles ever (including Ron) are incompetent.

Am I blinded because Lewis is my favourite driver? Blinded by what?

When people have favourites they always lean towards a positive view of that favourite and think its unfair that everyone else doesn't give the same view towards thats favourite. When a favourite isn't being succesful as he's your favourite and you believe them to be unwholey talented then it must be down to another factor. I.E in this case Martin Whitmarsh and I'm sorry but I don't believe you would be calling Martin Whitmarsh incompetent if he'd spent the last 3 years waxing lyrical about how brilliant Lewis was. Pure and simple I believe you think Martin Whitmarsh is incompetent because he doesn't favour Lewis like you do.

As for the DC/Mika stuff. You say Mika was the more talented but thats the hindsight view. DC was a race winner a clear 2 season before Mika and was brought into the team as part of a contract that Mclaren should have a race winning driver signed. He'd shown far more potential than Mika has who'd actually spent a good deal of time annoying the rest of the grid by pulling off stupid start moves but it all switched in 1998. Now as I said gifting those 2 wins to Mika unlocked the potential that he had but at the same time it can't be viewed as anything but driver favouritism by Mr Dennis and you describe DC as being bitter with and it all being sour grapes (Lewis Hamilton in his book by the way describes him as " a real gent and someone who taught me something good) but if you'd been with a team 2 years and as soon as they developed a race winning car you were asked by the team boss to move over and let your team-mate win wouldn't you be a tad dissapointed? Imagine if that happened to Lewis? You'd be in outrage.

 

[racecub]

Im gonna go hide in a minute. I kind of knew Id be outnumbered here. (She sighs wearily and tries again)
I realise i will be more vocal when things affect Lewis badly, its the nature of being a passionate fan. I dont like it when unfair things happen to any driver, when its Lewis, its worse. Id like Lewis' achievements recognised and respected and him completely supported in his needs as a Mclaren driver, but I honestly would not want Whitmarsh slathering over him. I'd just like him to act professionally to BOTH drivers and put his feelings aside, leave them at home, dont bring them to work!.

My reason for thinking Whitmarsh incompetent is not entirely because of his attitude to his two drivers, mostly not in fact. That attitude is unprofessional. The incompetence is the mess Mclaren has been for the first five races of the season. Whitmarsh has presided over this. Poor strategies, an inability to think on feet, mistakes, poor procedures, poorly trained or badly selected staff. Lewis could be nearly 50 points clear without this and Jenson probably further up as well.What a squandering of opportunity when the season is so close!! McLarens structure may lend itself to these mistakes being more frequent than in other teams....so change it Martin! And its not as though it only started happenning this season, my memory is poor for dates and specifics so forgive me if I get this wrong, but off the top of my head...... lewis had a quali messed up last year through not enough petrol, he was sent out too late to cross the line, there was a tyre mix up(was it Monaco?),he was underfuelled at Silverstone and Jenson'ds wheel fell off. So not new stuff all this messing up. Mistakes happen, but to allow them to continue happennig to such a degree is in my view incompetent.

On Mika and Coulthard, as I said I wasnt an out and out supporter of either so didnt follow so closely. I know Mika made mistakes early on but he made up for it and was in my mind the better driver. Coulthard was a safe pair of hands(just my view sorry )
.I didnt think favouring drivers at Mclaren went beyond personal preferences and in Whitmarsh's case verbal diarohea to anyone who'll listen. If you're telling me that Mclaren actually sanction providing better chances for one driver then I think its dreadful....and in fact it sheds a new light on why Lewis gets the less favourable pitstops.

 

[Jen]

racecub, always best to be a 'generalist' when comparing drivers, principals and teams. Have your favourites and hold them dear, but know what else is or has happened.

F1 is a very small world, but still only populated by humans.

Other than that, I have no grudge against Whitmarsh - he is more appealing (to me) than Ron, but neither instil a degree of excellence in their team that is necessary to win championships.

 

[Porceliamone]

I think Martin Whitmarsh is a normal human being and like most of us tends to have people that he warms to more than others, on a personal level. Consequently the actions or demeanour towards any preferred individual on a personal likeability level will appear as bias. I do not believe this affects the 'not liked as much' individual in terms of opportunity or leverage within the McLaren team. Jenson Button is universally recognised and proven himself to be a more affable and approachable character than Lewis Hamilton. Deal with it!...Until someone writes a book that blows a lid on this intangible ‘something’ some people seem desperate to speculate about on this forum. Arrrgh!

 

[teabagyokel]

Criticism and dislike of drivers and teams is perfectly acceptable, but please try and avoid the usual invective that pervades so many forums, especially with regards to certain drivers and teams.

I'm not deleting anything quite yet, but we have discussed the Whitmarsh favouritism question so often that it is getting extremely dull. I'm not sure anyone is trying too hard to avoid the "usual invective".

So I'd advise that we bury the Whitmarsh favouritism question, because no-one is going to change their opinion.

 

[RasputinLives]

To be honest TBY I think we were more exploring why people hold those views. I understand now why racecub has those views despite the fact I'm never going to agree.

We shall only acheive peace on earth through understanding. Who said that? John Lennon? if not I'm having it!

 

[racecub]

I agree Rasputini. I thought we were having an interesting discussion there whist respecting opposing views. Didnt realise we'd /I'd done bad. I'm a tad confused now. But then "confusion is sexy"Who said that? Ah, its on my T-shirt. Not as profound as Lennon then, but a useful disclaimer before I open my mouth..

 

[Mephistopheles]

Touché racecub

 

[Slyboogy]

I can't find the Whitmarsh one at the moment racecub although it was on the BBC site at some point last season, it was posted on here, but I found this from Kovalainen, and he's stated it many times.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...ritism-towards-Lewis-Hamilton-at-McLaren.html

 

[Mephistopheles]

To be honest it was obvious Lewis was getting more support in the team than Kovalainen And if it is true (which I doubt) that Button is being favoured there'd hardly be room for complaint would there?

Anyway it is Lewis's contract year and if he is truly playing second driver and he is not happy with it then he will surely move teams after all there are plenty to choose from as Mercedes, Lotus and even Williams are looking good at the moment and I am sure that any of them would make room for him.

But if he resigns for McLaren then it will be obvious that he is getting treated equally wont it? On the other hand if he does move then I'm sure he will be telling the press his reasons for doing so. Either way we will all be a lot wiser...

 

[KekeTheKing]

it was obvious Lewis was getting more support in the team than Kovalainen

It was just as obvious that Hamilton was the superior driver in every facet of the meeting. I don't see how anyone could make a case that Kovalainen should have been held in equal esteem. You couldn't put your eggs in Heikki's basket if you were aiming for a race win.