Liberty Media buy F1

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

Well someone has got out of the wrong side of the bed. I NEVER made a suggestion that Germans were "stupid", "inept" or, as far as I can work out, made any derogatory comments about their competence as engineers or as human beings. I would be very grateful Izumi if you would go back and re-read what I posted and then reconsider your rather insulting outburst. The only one stereotyping a nation here is you.

+1

Izumi lack of interest is a very good reason, I only said that there must be a reason if F1 was born as a British-Italian affair and after all these years it is dominantly a Britsh-Italian affair and in effect you answered my question giving such reason.

And I don't have anything against the mighty German car industry, as a matter of fact I drive a BMW and a Porsche

 

[Izumi]

RasputinLives thanks at that point where im very rarely youngest in anything, last time was when I was in Fleetwood market killing time before the football & everyone I past was about 40yrs younger than me



I dont think we will ever know why because it will have to come from the teams themselves & even that will be PR spun. so all we have all have rumours & opinions. Ferrari just like privacy & as un fan friendly as that is I understand that because Ferrari have always been like that. but Mercedes are the ones I think are dodgy because under toto are worried that they will lose their public image.

No sane business person wants to have stigma attached to their product. So much is true.

 

[RasputinLives]

Izumi why do you think they refused to take part?

 

[Izumi]

+1

Izumi lack of interest is a very good reason, I only said that there must be a reason if F1 was born as a British-Italian affair and after all these years it is dominantly a Britsh-Italian affair and in effect you answered my question giving such reason.

And I don't have anything against the mighty German car industry, as a matter of fact I drive a BMW and a Porsche

One side there is this mantra on the forum and elsewhere about valley on island full of special skill people not available anywhere, thus Mercedes in new Brexit/CA era of 2020+ should not even try to establish works in Germany. The case of Toyota (run by Brits on German soil) was cited as an example what would (probably) happen to Mercedes.

Guys, you have to forgive me, but if you follow all these insinuations and alleged superiority of one place, and by default then lack of competency elsewhere, that actually prompted me to point out, that Germany really on its soil had not involved itself in any F1 projects and failed in that endeavor, as far as I know. No one but Italy and England are good to run teams on?

Well, Nothing taking away from anyone in the past, however I dare to disagree in terms that result as failure is predetermined. Sorry about dare.

 

[Izumi]

Izumi why do you think they refused to take part?

I don't know, but it is fishy. Both teams do employ highly capable lawyers and PR people, and if they did agree not to do it, then conditions that were imposed probably weren't too good. Would be nice to have facts, so much I agree with you.

 

[RasputinLives]

One side there is this mantra on the forum

Why are you doing that? Serious question. A few people disagree with you and the whole forum has a view point and poor old you is being got at by them? Why in another thread are you telling someone they'll pay on this forum for having a view on Kubica when actually your posting history shows there has literally been no discussion with anyone on here about Kubica? Proper serious question .

 

[Izumi]

RasputinLives thanks at that point where im very rarely youngest in anything, last time was when I was in Fleetwood market killing time before the football & everyone I past was about 40yrs younger than me

I dont think we will ever know why because it will have to come from the teams themselves & even that will be PR spun. so all we have all have rumours & opinions. Ferrari just like privacy & as un fan friendly as that is I understand that because Ferrari have always been like that. but Mercedes are the ones I think are dodgy because under toto are worried that they will lose their public image.

Take a critical look how various media (globally) portraying "manufacturers". Start with that perspective. I am noi really sure how "manufacturers" is defined in Venn diagram, because they all manufacture something, but I gather it means probably automakers. In one layer deeper one finds contradictions. Renault, entity which actually was the strongest proponent of hybrid technology (alledgedly?) is in the clear from public wrath, but Ferrari and Mercedes get special treatment. Why? CA were negotiated individually, and without any guns present in the room, aiming at BE's head. I am consitent in the opinion that Commercial division together with FiA were fully cognizant how dramatic technology will change series structure, and accepted risks alongway. They could say NO to teams. Did they? Those are true rullers in the sport. People should ask those people and leave automakers run their course.

 

[Izumi]

Why are you doing that? Serious question. A few people disagree with you and the whole forum has a view point and poor old you is being got at by them? Why in another thread are you telling someone they'll pay on this forum for having a view on Kubica when actually your posting history shows there has literally been no discussion with anyone on here about Kubica? Proper serious question .

Appology for stronger language than intended.

 

[FB]

Izumi - you are welcome to disgaree. The main purpose of internet forums is for all us wanna be politcians and pundits to sound off about things we have an interest in but (probably) little knowledge of. The issue I have is you made it personal.

Let me give you a couple of examples of the sort of thing @Publius Corneluis Scipio and I are alluding to but not in the context of F1. Switzerland is famous for making watches. The reason the Swiss make great watches is that a whole infrastructure has grown up around micro engineering and watch making in that country on the back of the industry being very strong there. Scotland makes great whisky. From this a whole network of different companies have developed which help that industry to grow and thrive.

You seem at pains to make this some sort of jingositic thing from "the islanders" (and yes, I know the German nickname for the Brits and it's quite insulting) but it is a simple statement of fact that industries grow around centres of excellence and they two main ones for F1 are in the UK and Italy.

 

[Izumi]

Izumi - you are welcome to disgaree. The main purpose of internet forums is for all us wanna be politcians and pundits to sound off about things we have an interest in but (probably) little knowledge of. The issue I have is you made it personal.

Let me give you a couple of examples of the sort of thing @Publius Corneluis Scipio and I are alluding to but not in the context of F1. Switzerland is famous for making watches. The reason the Swiss make great watches is that a whole infrastructure has grown up around micro engineering and watch making in that country on the back of the industry being very strong there. Scotland makes great whisky. From this a whole network of different companies have developed which help that industry to grow and thrive.

You seem at pains to make this some sort of jingositic thing from "the islanders" (and yes, I know the German nickname for the Brits and it's quite insulting) but it is a simple statement of fact that industries grow around centres of excellence and they two main ones for F1 are in the UK and Italy.

How does this prevents Mercedes from considering to move the team on the continent, should they decide to stay once current CA mature its course? Wasn't this actually my original and rather simple question? I have no problem how people view place where they live. New Yorkers consider their city greates in the world, you and many others consider cluster of manufacturing base in Englad as centre of excellence. Well, I have never stated anywhere that they aren't any good, however I do reject notion that others should not try it, if they decided to get involved. Mercedes is not in business making exactly horse buggies, and they do have know-how in relevant technologies how to do pretty sophisticated vehicles. Case which you put forward as a warning if one sets a team on German soil I thought was not very apt, sory for that, but Toyota was not managed or owned by Mercedes.

Anyway, I think we beat this horse to death by now, and I will leave this subject. Mercedes just as Ferrari will do whatever suits them, regardless how many pages and cyber ink we spend here.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

Izumi why do you think they refused to take part?

I think that Ferrari refused to take part because that is how they have always behaved, the Old Man had to create some mistique and so he decided that he wouldn't attend races, that he wouldn't take part in events outside of Maranello, that he would invite people in Maranello and then not meet them, that they would only deal with the media on tjheir own terms, etc. I was watching a video of the presentation of a book by Pino Allievi, with Mauro Forghieri and Arturo Merzario among the guests, and they were mentioning the fact that once the Old Man invited the Pope to Maranello and when the Pope got there the Old Man said that he was ill and couldn't meet him but instead called him over the phone from his flat who was one floor of the Ferrari offices that the Pape was visitng. That's how Ferrari has always handled some situations, they didn't have a museum until a few years ago, outsiders cannot visit the factory, etc. Some years ago I used to have some dealing with them on a professional basis, getting inside their plant was always difficult, or they might have 3 guests and they would invite 2 of them to test their cars at Fiorano and tell the other guy "we're sorry but we cannot let you drive one of our cars because we can't let outsider drive them", pointing out that the other two guys were outsiders and were driving was just a waste of time.

Ferrari is like that, I'm not urprised that they weren't very forthcoming with Netflix

 

[vintly]

Mercedes and Ferrari didn't ask to be in a documentary. 'Refused to take part' could equally be read as 'Netflix failed to get Merc and Ferrari onboard'.

It's a doco for Netflix, it's essentially fluff. It may be very entertaining fluff, but we don't know any details so assuming Merc and Ferrari are letting down the sport is pure bias – the exec producer's comment is but one side of the story.

 

[RasputinLives]

I think you are probably right about Ferrari Publius Cornelius Scipio but as previously stated it's Merc I'm surprised at given how vocal they have been about 'doing things for the fans' - vintly you are also right with it being fluff it's just a real shame all the teams couldn't get in board what is an obvious attempt by Liberty Media to get back in touch with it audience. They can't bury their heads in the sand forever.

Oh well guess the next gen of F1 fans are a going to be cheering on those Red Bulls.

 

[Izumi]

I think that Ferrari refused to take part because that is how they have always behaved, the Old Man had to create some mistique and so he decided that he wouldn't attend races, that he wouldn't take part in events outside of Maranello, that he would invite people in Maranello and then not meet them, that they would only deal with the media on tjheir own terms, etc. I was watching a video of the presentation of a book by Pino Allievi, with Mauro Forghieri and Arturo Merzario among the guests, and they were mentioning the fact that once the Old Man invited the Pope to Maranello and when the Pope got there the Old Man said that he was ill and couldn't meet him but instead called him over the phone from his flat who was one floor of the Ferrari offices that the Pape was visitng. That's how Ferrari has always handled some situations, they didn't have a museum until a few years ago, outsiders cannot visit the factory, etc. Some years ago I used to have some dealing with them on a professional basis, getting inside their plant was always difficult, or they might have 3 guests and they would invite 2 of them to test their cars at Fiorano and tell the other guy "we're sorry but we cannot let you drive one of our cars because we can't let outsider drive them", pointing out that the other two guys were outsiders and were driving was just a waste of time.

Ferrari is like that, I'm not urprised that they weren't very forthcoming with Netflix

Now that one humongous supposition, isn't it, Publius. People having big phone numbers left, there is new culture seeping in for many years now. True or false, there is no need giving Ferrari bad rap without shred of evidence, especially as Mercedes adopted the same, or similar position. Moreover, I do not think its about money either. Exposure in good light would be tremendous promotion, and teams knew it. There is something else which smells like mackerel. I think they were concerned it was trick or could have turned into one, and they were to end isolated as two bad boys of the bunch in global public square. Risk was probably too much.

 

[Dartman]

The Germans entered motor racing as manufacturers from the beginning of time, in their glory days of yore they were state sponsored with Auto Union, ( better known now as Audi) and Mercedes, The UK never went racing as a big sponsored manufacturers ( Bentley was an old boys club, Jaguar was a small sports car company similar to what Lotus became) in open wheel sports again there were small companies mainly engineering that dabbled and were basically supported by their rich amateur drivers.
Motor racing in the UK was basically a rich old boys club who employed or supported some very talented engineers who knew other engineers in different engineering spheres to alleviate problems as they arose, this was similar to the Italians whose low volume sports cars supported racing, the companies were very similar to Bentley ( though Bentley never went for the open wheel route) Perhaps Italian flair for the exotic ( not erotic) sent them on the open wheel route, whereas the UK used the old boy network, there was always some one who knew some one to fix the problem, whereas the Germans and Japanese ( to a different work ethic) used a corporate system, whether the corporate system used by Toyota stifled or even forebode the UK system from above who knows, I didn't work for them, but I did work for a Japanese UK subsidiary and were very protective of their out of date technology and were loathe to update at almost no cost as it was not made or designed in Japan.

 

[RasputinLives]

Izumi exposed as a trick? I can smell the paranoia from here.

 

[Izumi]

The Germans entered motor racing as manufacturers from the beginning of time, in their glory days of yore they were state sponsored with Auto Union, ( better known now as Audi) and Mercedes, The UK never went racing as a big sponsored manufacturers ( Bentley was an old boys club, Jaguar was a small sports car company similar to what Lotus became) in open wheel sports again there were small companies mainly engineering that dabbled and were basically supported by their rich amateur drivers.
Motor racing in the UK was basically a rich old boys club who employed or supported some very talented engineers who knew other engineers in different engineering spheres to alleviate problems as they arose, this was similar to the Italians whose low volume sports cars supported racing, the companies were very similar to Bentley ( though Bentley never went for the open wheel route) Perhaps Italian flair for the exotic ( not erotic) sent them on the open wheel route, whereas the UK used the old boy network, there was always some one who knew some one to fix the problem, whereas the Germans and Japanese ( to a different work ethic) used a corporate system, whether the corporate system used by Toyota stifled or even forebode the UK system from above who knows, I didn't work for them, but I did work for a Japanese UK subsidiary and were very protective of their out of date technology and were loathe to update at almost no cost as it was not made or designed in Japan.

I have no issues with what you wrote here, but I would like to point out, that Japanese are not the only one who protect their stuff. In US it is known for long time, you could not talk to GM about something new brought from outside. NIH factor was a "word" of the day. (Not Invented Here).

 

[vintly]

RasputinLives Agreed it is a shame not all the teams could get on board, but that's the job of the people making the doco to get right. It's a given that Merc and Ferrari are perhaps more rigid than other teams with access etc - that's their prerogative until they decide, are persuaded or are forced to change. Clearly they weren't on this occasion.

 

[RasputinLives]

I'm sure I'll get an earful for this but I still reckon it was about money and image rights. It is what it usually comes down to in F1.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

Now that one humongous supposition, isn't it, Publius. People having big phone numbers left, there is new culture seeping in for many years now. True or false, there is no need giving Ferrari bad rap without shred of evidence, especially as Mercedes adopted the same, or similar position. Moreover, I do not think its about money either. Exposure in good light would be tremendous promotion, and teams knew it. There is something else which smells like mackerel. I think they were concerned it was trick or could have turned into one, and they were to end isolated as two bad boys of the bunch in global public square. Risk was probably too much.

having a bad day my friend? True or false my a..., I quoted 3 real individuals all connected with Ferrari who talked about Ferrari's attitude, including the Old Man's attitude towards the Pope. Oh, and on top of that good old Piero Ferrari, the Old Man's very own son, gave an interview saying exactly the same things about his dad's attitude towards the media.

So before talking of "humongous supposing" do some homework my boy, here's the video

before making bold comments it's always wise to check your facts