Is this the beginning of the Red Bull slide ?

[sushifiesta]

Whilst they were growing and restructuring, yes. Plus they already had a contract with McLaren.

 

[Incubus]

McLaren had effectively been Meredes's official works team for years, and they were still full partners for a few years even when Mercedes enered their own team via Brawn.
Not quite the same thing a top team trying to get an established rival team to supply them with their engines is it? You're comparing two entirely different situations.

 

[Il_leone]

Shogun

The fraction between Red Bull and Renault is getting wider although I think STR signed a 4 year deal with Renault

I thought Red Bull had a deal until 2018 as the de facto No 1 team but the fact Horner come out and labelled them won't help matters

Just wait when Renault decide to strike .. its what French companies and people do if they do not get their way or feel insulted.

The rumour is Audi will take over but what will happen to the young driver programme?

 

[Il_leone]

One thing I hope if Red Bull do go on a slide and leave F1 is Christian Horner will disappear from F1. Any team would be really stupid to hire him

 

[cider_and_toast]

I totally disagree with that Il_leone. I'm no fan of Christian Horner but he managed the team from the pit wall, dealt with Bernie and won 4 titles while holding (just about) his two drivers together. I think he'd do a good job for any team.

They just need to keep him away from the cameras.

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast He was annoying every time he just use to jump on the radio to congratulate his boy Seb and the fact he is already moaning means he's going to take away the gloss off what Mercedes achieve

Someone should just lock him in a room with a gobstopper

 

[teabagyokel]

Il_leone - Exactly why he'd be my first choice as team principal.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel I remember Ron use to annoying because he always sounded like a bad loser.. Todt always whinged about other teams cheating but Horner is the worse

If Horner is team principal he would just imply embarrass the team he leads . He's more of a puppet on Helmut Marko's string

 

[teabagyokel]

Embarrassing photos like this:

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel what was his contribution ? Is he irreplaceable?

 

[teabagyokel]

It is an extraordinary position to take to dismiss a team principal's contribution to the team on the basis that his interviews/celebrations are annoying.

I think he plays politics and the media exceptionally well in the pursuit of getting what Red Bull Racing want. I think he has kept a lid on a tense driver situation for 5 years. I think he showed his shrewdness with Arden, and carried Red Bull along in the same manner. I think he ensured that Red Bull were shielded from the excesses of Dr. Marko's experimentations - the Klien and Liuzzi situation from 2005 was never perpetuated at his team.

In other words, I believe he is a very good team principal, and that is why they've bothered to stick with him all these years.

 

[Whodat singer]

teabagyokel what was his contribution ? Is he irreplaceable?

No one is irreplaceable but I think it would take an extraordinary person to accomplish what he has. He has worked with others to bring the team 4 WCC and 4 WDC. That being said I think RBR will slide down to mediocrity. They have lost a number of people in their design team and a very good driver.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel I will agree with you about him initially laying the foundations of Red Bull by convincing Marko that DC with one rookie driver would have been better than two inexperienced rookies..although Liuzzi really got the raw end of the deal

I do feel he really bundled handling the situation with Webber and Vettel and it always seems Webber was at fault or had to suffer

They have bothered to stick with him because he's not Jean Todt who would begin to start turning against his own superiors to manage the team

Would he be able to play the politics well if Red Bull did not have 2 votes in team voting ?

The best team principals will be able to handle the rough with the smooth.

There was a quote the other day in the paper that Red Bull are now moaning and throwing toys out of a pram now that they are getting a serious beating

If I had a guitar in my hand I would give him the "El Kabong" to shut him up permanently

 

[teabagyokel]

I do feel he really bundled handling the situation with Webber and Vettel and it always seems Webber was at fault or had to suffer

Because he was a significantly worse driver than Vettel. A team principal who supported Webber over Vettel would have handed two titles to Fernando Alonso.

Yes, they're moaning. I'm sure they won't get a single concession out of Ecclestone otherwise.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel I am referring to the Turkey clash when Webber was then blamed for the accident after Horner first said it was Vettel's fault because Helmut said it was Webber's fault for not giving space

We know about the front wing farce at Silverstone and really was justice for Mark that he won. I will admit Webber thought he was the immovable object until Vettel started chipping away at him and knocking him down to the point he could not get back up

 

[teabagyokel]

I got it wrong at the time. How many people did Webber crash into when overtaken? Not just Vettel.

Plus Webber took 15 points from that to add to the huge handicap he binned that year.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel I just felt Turkey Horner really did not help from changing his minds about who's fault it was just because his superior spoke out. It started off supposedly favouritism rumours towards Vettel

 

[teabagyokel]

If he had favoured Webber, Alonso would have won that title.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel I am not saying he should have favoured Webber..but it did feel more one sided than the other .

Webber shot his own foot by thinking Red Bull prefer Vettel on the eve of the Brazilian GP just when the title was race was getting tense and he came into the last race already a beaten man

 

[P1]

It's interesting to look at this again. In Malaysia Toro Rosso was faster than Red Bull, and now Toro Rosso leads Red Bull in the championship too.

Seems to me that Renault is right - it's not just the engine. This year's non Newey Red Bull is shit.