Is 10th more important than 1st?

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
After the excitement of Monaco I thought it an idea to take a step back from all the machinations at the front of the grid and take a look at the back. Williams scored their first points, Sauber took a 5th place after a bad weekend.

I know many on here are not just Ferrari or McLaren fans (are there any Red Bullists?) but I think we all appreciate the efforts of the teams at the back, even if some are a little wanting (yes, HRT, I'm looking at you).

So here's the question, if Lotus, Virgin or (heaven forfend) HRT score a single solitary point this season will it mean more to them than if Red Bull win every single race from now to Brazil? Should it mean more to them and is it more significant than a team which has been at the top for nearly 3 seasons staying there?
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
if Red Bull win every single race from now to Brazil India?

Provisionally fixed that for ya ;)

I've always been a huge Sauber fan and am glad to see them doing well. All the "other" teams (anyone apart from McL, RBR & The Suderia) know what points mean........points mean prizes cold hard cash, so in summary I think, yes they will be very happy with any points they can pick up.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
After the excitement of Monaco I thought it an idea to take a step back from all the machinations at the front of the grid and take a look at the back. Williams scored their first points, Sauber took a 5th place after a bad weekend.

I know many on here are not just Ferrari or McLaren fans (are there any Red Bullists?) but I think we all appreciate the efforts of the teams at the back, even if some are a little wanting (yes, HRT, I'm looking at you).

So here's the question, if Lotus, Virgin or (heaven forfend) HRT score a single solitary point this season will it mean more to them than if Red Bull win every single race from now to Brazil? Should it mean more to them and is it more significant than a team which has been at the top for nearly 3 seasons staying there?

I remember what the finishing in points did for Manardi back in 2002-2003 and what they got out of it, so yeah I would say for lesser teams it is absolutely jackpot to be able to finish with points on the board. As you move up the quality the importance kind of gets diluted in the WDC, but yeah I say lesser teams points to them is like winning the championship.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I not a fan of any particular team or driver.But each year I do choose either a driver or team to support usually one of the underdogs.
This year it happens to be Sauber.So to see them get a few points in bag makes me happy.Especially after the DSQ for a very minor technical infringement which had no impact on performance.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Good article - have to say the fight at the back is far more interesting than the fight at the front this season.

I think Lotus will be gutted Williams scored some points this weekend as it now leaves them adrift and with a hard task to not just finished 'best of the newbies' - lucky for them Maldonado was taken out or there really would have been no come back - 2 points is going to be hard enough for them to pull back as it is. Think Lotus will be gutted if they still only finish 3rd from bottom of the constructors this season.

After all their pre-season hype I think Toro Rosso will be scratching thier heads how they only have 7 points (all from Buemi!).

But to answer your direct question I think for Virgin and HRT scoring a point would mean more to them at this stage than winning the world championship - for HRT it would mean they could actually race next season and maybe run 2 decent drivers and Virgin would maybe use the money to buy some time in a wind tunnel?

I can see Lotus scoring this season but not HRT and Virgin - not enough retirements.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
This is one of the fascinations of F1 - there's always a fierce battle being fought somewhere. In addition to the prestige, there were (and I think still are) enormous financial benefits to be gained by securing a place in the top ten. Whether that is actually the best idea for the sport in the long-term I would dispute, but you can't deny it adds spice to the overall show.

As for this season I think "Lotus" have shown enough tactical acuity to suggest that they might be able to snatch a point or two in a race of high attrition, or in wet/dry conditions (or both). Unfortunately I think the performance gap between them and the midfield remains too big for them to score in a normal race this season.

Apropos of nothing (moderate this if you will) - I wonder whether the HRT is, ultimately, a quicker car than the Virgin, but simply lacks a Glock to drive it?
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Apropos of nothing (moderate this if you will) - I wonder whether the HRT is, ultimately, a quicker car than the Virgin, but simply lacks a Glock to drive it?

An interesting point, Liuzzi was going out in Q1 in a Force India when they were the 6th best car in the first half of last year, and Karthikeyan has shown nothing.

Lotus can score this year under a certain set of circumstances, but having said that, if a race remains "normal" the 10 points scorers will probably be Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Renault!
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
with a sprinkling of Sauber TBY?

maybe you have a point about Liuzzi but I'm of the opinion he was very unlucky last season in the Force India. I'll wait until further on in the season to make my judgement on that one.

Lets also be fair that he may have pulled his finger out at Monoco but there has been more Glock Strop at Virgin this use that Glock Rock.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I always get a bit of a buzz when a midfield team that hasn't scored for a while compared to it's regular competition.

Especially when it's Sauber or Toro Rosso (especially when moose a.k.a Buemi gets the point).
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
It's hard to believe now that around 10 years ago, it was 6th place and that's yer lot as far as the points went. It does make you think about how much effort teams such as Minardi, Zakspeed, Leyton House and Footwork had to put in just to get a point or two each season. Granted the reliablitiy level of the cars has shot up mostly thanks to the "must use only so many bits a season" rule which means almost every car finishes these days so you won't see as many mid-field cars popping up in 6th as you once did.

Due to the reduced gap in performance among the mid-field teams this year it's been a lot more fun to watch than the RBRs scampering up the road with the rest of the top 6 struggling to hang on to their coat tails.

I too believe that Lotus should pinch at least one point this season and it will come at a race where events dictate the race rather than anything to do with their on track pace. If the press announcements of the expected improvement in performance with each upgrade were true then Lotus should have been out in front by an average 2 seconds a lap quicker than the RBRs. I've lost count of the number of times so far this season I've read on Autosport online that Fernandes expected a 1 second improvement with their upgrade package for ............ (fill in GP as appropriate).

In terms of money, that 10th place is vital for continued development.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Not only has reliability improved cider, but there's also the fact there's 5 teams (Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Renault) will always occupy the points (well Renault and Mercedes have been a bit of a so and so this year) but comparing to last year it was always these teams occupying the top 10.

However to contradict my argument (as usual) and I am agreeing with you here THIS season the midfield teams are getting lucky with these new rules, but they (Sauber, Toro Rosso) do have solid cars. They still put a lot of effort in, but compare them to Minardi, a point was like a podium for them...I wonder how they must have felt when Badoer running in 4th in grand prix had to retire near the end, that must have been painful.

But as you say, "It's hard to believe now that around 10 years ago, it was 6th place and that's yer lot as far as the points went."
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Personally I miss those days - this 25 points for a win thing still feels weird. Ok maybe not points just for top 6 but lets go back to points only for the top 8 and 10 for win shall we?
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Which reminds me. Is there not a thread on this forum that last year compared results of the 10-6-4 .. sytsem vs the current one?
 
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