A fact that didn't go unnoticed by the Motorsport editors who actually included Moss at the end of the article after the 10 world champions.
How would you rate Britains 10 WDC's ??
- Thread starter cider_and_toast
- Start date
In my book Moss is and always will be a champion and belongs way at the top of any list...
They're all, obviously, very good drivers. I've made more negative points on the ones towards the bottom simply to justify their positions in this list, not because I don't "rate" them overall.
1. Clark - if JYS says Jimmy was the best, and almost all his 1960s rivals concur, then that's good enough for me.
2. Stewart - a great talent who could show great loyalty and compassion and still achieve recognition and commercial support decades ahead of his time.
3. Surtees - probably Clark's closest rival on raw pace, he didn't make the best career choices and was unlucky too.
4. Mansell - not without his flaws but unstoppable on his day with oceans of determination.
5. Hamilton - immensely talented with great potential to move up on this list (or, it must be said, down).
6. G Hill - not the outright fastest, but intelligent, driven, and knew what it took to get the job done. Went on too long.
7. Hawthorn - able to take on and beat Fangio and Moss on his day, unfortunately wasn't always able to maintain performance.
8. Button - a long voyage from rookie sensation to mediocrity, despair, epiphany, redemption, triumph, validation and...
9. Hunt - brilliant in the Hesketh, was a fearsome opponent, but lost motivation in a poor car and never rediscovered it.
10. D Hill - could be brilliant, but too many 'buts' - frayed in 1995, error-prone in '96, troubled by Diniz in '97, AWOL in '99.
Moss would have been 2nd.
1. Clark - if JYS says Jimmy was the best, and almost all his 1960s rivals concur, then that's good enough for me.
2. Stewart - a great talent who could show great loyalty and compassion and still achieve recognition and commercial support decades ahead of his time.
3. Surtees - probably Clark's closest rival on raw pace, he didn't make the best career choices and was unlucky too.
4. Mansell - not without his flaws but unstoppable on his day with oceans of determination.
5. Hamilton - immensely talented with great potential to move up on this list (or, it must be said, down).
6. G Hill - not the outright fastest, but intelligent, driven, and knew what it took to get the job done. Went on too long.
7. Hawthorn - able to take on and beat Fangio and Moss on his day, unfortunately wasn't always able to maintain performance.
8. Button - a long voyage from rookie sensation to mediocrity, despair, epiphany, redemption, triumph, validation and...
9. Hunt - brilliant in the Hesketh, was a fearsome opponent, but lost motivation in a poor car and never rediscovered it.
10. D Hill - could be brilliant, but too many 'buts' - frayed in 1995, error-prone in '96, troubled by Diniz in '97, AWOL in '99.
Moss would have been 2nd.
Did you not see Damon's drive at Hungary in 97 Galahad I have no intention of questioning your list as each persons is his / her own opinion, but he was simply sublime in that race and robbed of an historic victory for Arrows by a part that probably cost no more than 50p.
Quick quiz, he qualified 3rd in that car in that race, but in which race that year did he post the second fastest time in qualifying...?
Quick quiz, he qualified 3rd in that car in that race, but in which race that year did he post the second fastest time in qualifying...?
Mephistopheles - this is going to be Jerez because the top 3 had the same time, right?
Mephistopheles - of course I remember Hungary, but I also remember him being outqualified by Diniz at Monza and perhaps elsewhere too. Hence my comment. He was still bloody good - but someone had to be tenth!
Lewywo4
Race Winner
Damon's loss at Hungary in 97, was a race that would be hard for anybody to forget, and absolutely gut wrenching.
Correct teabagyokel I'm not sure how many times that has happened down to 1 thousandth of a second..
DISCLAIMER: This is from what I've seen and read, and my impression of their statistical records:
10. Hunt, J
Brooks, T
9. Surtees, J
8. Hawthorn, M
7. Hill, D
6. Button, J
5. Hill, G
4. Mansell, N
3. Hamilton, L
Moss, S
2. Stewart, J
1. Clark, J
10. Hunt, J
Brooks, T
9. Surtees, J
8. Hawthorn, M
7. Hill, D
6. Button, J
5. Hill, G
4. Mansell, N
3. Hamilton, L
Moss, S
2. Stewart, J
1. Clark, J
I see what you've done there teabagyokel you've used logic whereas I just used bloody mindedness...
landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
Excellent thread cider_and_toast, your choice's have been well thought out.
As a young whippersnapper to this game it's hard to say who was the best British champion. The only British champions in my time of watching F1 have been Damon Hill, Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button. I'm even too young to remember Mansell's days.
However from learning about the great British Champions i don't think anyone could really argue with your list.
As a young whippersnapper to this game it's hard to say who was the best British champion. The only British champions in my time of watching F1 have been Damon Hill, Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button. I'm even too young to remember Mansell's days.
However from learning about the great British Champions i don't think anyone could really argue with your list.
1= Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart - equally brilliant in different ways, can't separate them
3 Graham Hill - two time champ, 5 time Monaco winner, Indy 500 etc, great character on and off the track: Come on guys, how can some of you rate him so far down?
4 Damon Hill - first and (so far) only son of a champ to become champ himself, and a much underrated driver (but not by me)
5 Lewis Hamilton - should (and could yet) be higher
6 Jenson Button - solid but not spectacular
7 Nigel Mansell - should have won more titles, but who can forget Silverstone 1987?
8 John Surtees - great achievement to be champ on two and four wheels
9 James Hunt - benefitted somewhat from Nicki Lauda's accident and subsequent withdrawal
10 Mike Hawthorn - the only really undeserving champ in the list (should be Moss in his place, who would then have been much higher up the list anyway)
3 Graham Hill - two time champ, 5 time Monaco winner, Indy 500 etc, great character on and off the track: Come on guys, how can some of you rate him so far down?
4 Damon Hill - first and (so far) only son of a champ to become champ himself, and a much underrated driver (but not by me)
5 Lewis Hamilton - should (and could yet) be higher
6 Jenson Button - solid but not spectacular
7 Nigel Mansell - should have won more titles, but who can forget Silverstone 1987?
8 John Surtees - great achievement to be champ on two and four wheels
9 James Hunt - benefitted somewhat from Nicki Lauda's accident and subsequent withdrawal
10 Mike Hawthorn - the only really undeserving champ in the list (should be Moss in his place, who would then have been much higher up the list anyway)
Chad-
What is it that makes Hawthorn "undeserving"?
What is it that makes Hawthorn "undeserving"?
Perhaps I was a little harsh there siffert_fan: only that he won the title by one point from Moss, who had helped get a disqualification for Hawthorn (for pushing his car) nullified. He also only won one GP that year to Moss's four.
I suppose you could (and probably would) argue that he was at least as deserving of his title as James Hunt was of his.
I suppose you could (and probably would) argue that he was at least as deserving of his title as James Hunt was of his.
Olivier
Race Winner
1.Jim Clark; the best driver of his era, 'nuff said
2.Jackie Stewart; a complete driver, 3 driver’s championships. His campaign for safety still has impact to this day
- Stirling Moss; the best driver not to win a WDC
3.Graham Hill; 2 World Championships and 5 times Monaco winner, probably should have retired before he actually did
4.John Surtees; Champion on 2 and 4 wheels, could have won a second championship but at Ferrari didn’t feel comfortable anymore
5.Lewis Hamilton; the fastest driver since Schumacher retired, still has a lot coming his way
6.Mike Hawthorn; probably not the best British diver of his day still the 1st one to win the championship and that makes the difference
7.Nigel Mansell; when he had the best car as his disposal he was a fierce opponent, never to give up, otherwise unfocused and inconsistent
8.Damon Hill; another driver that needed the best car to shine, had the back luck to have to fight arguably the best driver of the 20th century
9.Jenson Button; not the best or fastest driver, still managed to be at the right time in the right place and deservedly took the WDC
-Tony Brooks; Stirling Moss referred to him as top drawer driver. Retired way to early but still left us with the 3 wins in 1958 at Spa, Nurburgring and Monza of all places
10.James Hunt; a good driver, not really the cream of the crop, found himself in a position to win the championship but only after Lauda gave up
2.Jackie Stewart; a complete driver, 3 driver’s championships. His campaign for safety still has impact to this day
- Stirling Moss; the best driver not to win a WDC
3.Graham Hill; 2 World Championships and 5 times Monaco winner, probably should have retired before he actually did
4.John Surtees; Champion on 2 and 4 wheels, could have won a second championship but at Ferrari didn’t feel comfortable anymore
5.Lewis Hamilton; the fastest driver since Schumacher retired, still has a lot coming his way
6.Mike Hawthorn; probably not the best British diver of his day still the 1st one to win the championship and that makes the difference
7.Nigel Mansell; when he had the best car as his disposal he was a fierce opponent, never to give up, otherwise unfocused and inconsistent
8.Damon Hill; another driver that needed the best car to shine, had the back luck to have to fight arguably the best driver of the 20th century
9.Jenson Button; not the best or fastest driver, still managed to be at the right time in the right place and deservedly took the WDC
-Tony Brooks; Stirling Moss referred to him as top drawer driver. Retired way to early but still left us with the 3 wins in 1958 at Spa, Nurburgring and Monza of all places
10.James Hunt; a good driver, not really the cream of the crop, found himself in a position to win the championship but only after Lauda gave up
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