Has F1 lost "Sportsmanship"

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Peter Sauber made some comments after the Korean Grand Prix that the reaction of the Ferrari and Mclaren garages to the retirement of the Red Bull cars showed a lack of sportsmanship. This isn't an isolated incident, I can recall similar incidents in the Red Bull garage where the mechanics have cheered at the demise of another car. To an extent I can understand the mechanics reaction to seeing their competition fail but I have to agree with Sauber that the reaction of the Mclaren pit wasn't very sporting (don't remember seeing any images of the Ferrari pit garage)

More disturbing to me however was the "poiliticing" of the drivers toward the race officials. The constant stream of radio messages that the conditions weren't good enough to drive in put me in mind of footballers harassing referees to try and get other players booked or sent off.

F1 is competitive, designers & engineers constantly push the limit of the rules, but shouldn't the teams and drivers get on with what they are supposed to do rather than trying to influence the officials to gain some advantage?
 

LifeW12

Podium Finisher
Vettel tried to get the race stopped because his engine was just about to go

Isn't new, Senna tried it when he was stuck in 6th gear at Brazil 91 and it wasn't even raining :sos:
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Let's not forget the legend that was Alan Prost who cost himself the championship by pointing at the sky every time he past the start/finish line at the 1984 Monaco GP.

I don't see a problem with teams cheering the demise of another teams car in fact it's quite funny usually.
 

LifeW12

Podium Finisher
cider_and_toast said:
Let's not forget the legend that was Alan Prost who cost himself the championship by pointing at the sky every time he past the start/finish line at the 1984 Monaco GP.


and Senna didn't win because of it

cider_and_toast said:
I don't see a problem with teams cheering the demise of another teams car in fact it's quite funny usually.
Its funny when neither car wins the championship :givemestrength: :givemestrength:
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I didn't like seeing the cheering of rival cars' retirements, but then I'm always slightly disappointed when an opposition player is sent off at White Hart Lane and everyone cheers then too. In short: I'm old fashioned!

As for the radio messages, it was funny really. Does F1 need to implement some sort of gauge for standing water that dictates SC deployment (as well as stealing light meters from cricket?)
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Galahad said:
I didn't like seeing the cheering of rival cars' retirements, but then I'm always slightly disappointed when an opposition player is sent off at White Hart Lane and everyone cheers then too. In short: I'm old fashioned!

As for the radio messages, it was funny really. Does F1 need to implement some sort of gauge for standing water that dictates SC deployment (as well as stealing light meters from cricket?)
It's only a short step to Grands Prix decided by the Duckworth-Lewis method, which would be interesting...

If Hamilton is at least 23 seconds ahead of Alonso with 14 laps left to run, he wins the race but only if he has 1 or less more pit-stops to make than Alonso, unless the threat of rain within the next 10 minutes is greater than 70%..., in which case the FIA-approved Safety Car slow-down co-efficient will apply to Hamilton only
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
FB said:
More disturbing to me however was the "poiliticing" of the drivers toward the race officials. The constant stream of radio messages that the conditions weren't good enough to drive in put me in mind of footballers harassing referees to try and get other players booked or sent off.

F1 is competitive, designers & engineers constantly push the limit of the rules, but shouldn't the teams and drivers get on with what they are supposed to do rather than trying to influence the officials to gain some advantage?
The back and forth radio messages about the weather was just pure gamesmanship. McLaren and Hamilton had an answer for every single radio message questioning if the race should still be going or not. I bet Hamilton was also struggling in the conditions just as much as the other drivers but he wanted to get on with it and get maximum points possible.

The radio messages aimed at trying to get other drivers penalised are a disgrace though and it is exactly the same as a footballer going down in the box and then asking for the player to get sent off.

There's been a few situations this season where a driver has questioned something with his team knowing full well that race control are listening and then a driver has been subsequently penalised. If a team thinks another driver has gone outside the rules then the team should go through the proper channels and file a report with the stewards instead of using their drivers to question it over the radio.

Banning team radio's is not an option as they can be useful from a safety point of view. I can't remember who it was at Suzuka but they had reported that Kubica's wheel was looking loose before it came off.

The stewarding system also needs to be looked at. There should be a core set of stewards who preside over every race aided by a drivers representative and a local steward with knowledge of the course.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
I think it's a load of :censored:

Lets look at cricket for sportsmanship.

Sportmanship:



Not Sportsmanship?

 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
F1Yorkshire said:
FB said:
More disturbing to me however was the "poiliticing" of the drivers toward the race officials. The constant stream of radio messages that the conditions weren't good enough to drive in put me in mind of footballers harassing referees to try and get other players booked or sent off.

F1 is competitive, designers & engineers constantly push the limit of the rules, but shouldn't the teams and drivers get on with what they are supposed to do rather than trying to influence the officials to gain some advantage?
The back and forth radio messages about the weather was just pure gamesmanship. McLaren and Hamilton had an answer for every single radio message questioning if the race should still be going or not. I bet Hamilton was also struggling in the conditions just as much as the other drivers but he wanted to get on with it and get maximum points possible.

The radio messages aimed at trying to get other drivers penalised are a disgrace though and it is exactly the same as a footballer going down in the box and then asking for the player to get sent off.

There's been a few situations this season where a driver has questioned something with his team knowing full well that race control are listening and then a driver has been subsequently penalised. If a team thinks another driver has gone outside the rules then the team should go through the proper channels and file a report with the stewards instead of using their drivers to question it over the radio.

Banning team radio's is not an option as they can be useful from a safety point of view. I can't remember who it was at Suzuka but they had reported that Kubica's wheel was looking loose before it came off.

The stewarding system also needs to be looked at. There should be a core set of stewards who preside over every race aided by a drivers representative and a local steward with knowledge of the course.
"Friday’s WMSC meeting agreed a number of other changes for 2010, including the use of experienced former F1 drivers to assist stewards in decision making relating to race incidents. A permanent panel of three FIA stewards will now attend every Grand Prix, joined by an additional local steward at each race."http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/12/10279.html
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
sportsman said:
"Friday’s WMSC meeting agreed a number of other changes for 2010, including the use of experienced former F1 drivers to assist stewards in decision making relating to race incidents. A permanent panel of three FIA stewards will now attend every Grand Prix, joined by an additional local steward at each race."http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/12/10279.html
Ok looks like I was a little wrong again. :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Is the stewarding system working though?
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
Speshal said:I think it's a load of :censored:

Let's look at cricket for sportsmanship.
Ah, but appearances can be deceptive can't they? Whether one of your examples is sportsmanship and the other not depends entirely on what was being said:
Imagine in the first picture, Freddy saying, "Sorry to hear about your wife's affair, mate"
And in the second, "Hold on a minute umpire; you missed my No-Ball there, so I don't believe that's out"
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
I think there is a difference between celebrating an achievement, say winning a race or taking a wicket, and celebrating someone else's failure, an engine failure or a run out for example. The Mclaren pit had a big does of schadenfreude when Vettel's engine went pop, can you imagine the Tyrrell mechanics in the 70's celebrating if one of the Lotus cars had spun off? Uncle Ken would have done his fruit. Does anyone remember anything similar when Ron Dennis was in charge at Mclaren?

Maybe like G I'm a bit old fashioned.
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
FB said:
I think there is a difference between celebrating an achievement, say winning a race or taking a wicket, and celebrating someone else's failure, an engine failure or a run out for example. The Mclaren pit had a big does of schadenfreude when Vettel's engine went pop, can you imagine the Tyrrell mechanics in the 70's celebrating if one of the Lotus cars had spun off? Uncle Ken would have done his fruit. Does anyone remember anything similar when Ron Dennis was in charge at Mclaren?

Maybe like G I'm a bit old fashioned.
I remember seeing this many time over the last few years, I think the first time I saw it was when Schumachers engine went in Japan and theault garage were cheering..

I also remember seeing it a few times this year, notably from the Red Bull team at Spa when Vettel took out Button and carried on and at Singapore when Webber took out Hamilton. I also remember Ferrari and Redf Bull cheering when Hamilton went out at Monza.

The problem is once one garage starts this kind of behaviour, all the other garages are going to join in. I do not think you can stop this though until the day a driver gets badly hurt or killed and some other team has been shown on live TV to have cheered..

Perhaps the team principals need to remind their crews of what they would look like in this kind of situation..
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I remember most of the non-UK media getting to their feet and cheering at the 2007 Chinese GP...
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Brogan said:
I remember most of the non-UK media getting to their feet and cheering at the 2007 Chinese GP...
That was in the F1 press centre wasn't it?
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
RickD said:
The problem is once one garage starts this kind of behaviour, all the other garages are going to join in.
I think this is more or less accurate. When Red Bull cheered the fact that their car continued after crippling another driver's car, it was a signal to the other teams that all bets are off.

I don't see much harm in teams getting excited when an opposing teams car retires with a mechanical issue. Now, cheering when a driver has a shunt is another story. That kind of behavior is uncalled for, especially when there's no way of knowing the status of the driver involved. I don't see this as an epidemic though.

More than anything I think this just shows how intense and utterly cut-throat F1 is at the moment. Every position is absolutely crucial in this title race, and teams couldn't care less how they gain them.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Didn't the McLaren team clap as the Ferrari mechanics trudged down the pit lane with Massa's errant fuel hose in Singapore last year?

 

GeoffP

Thank you and good night
Contributor
I'm not convinced...

I think Sportsmanship should start with the Sportsman.

Go back a few years and drivers were waved for letting leaders past, these days they get the economical version if they don't.

I feel like I've forgotten my zimmer frame half the time when I go round on my respect rant. I don't support lapped drivers fighting for position with the front runners, but I do feel the front runners owe them respect for the race that they are in.

Problem as I see it is, pit crews have always cheered on their drivers, and good for them for doing so. But sticking their excitement on the broadcast over the racing when it's the result of the opponent crashing out is simply catering to the mob mentality - gossip, sex and controversy may sell papers, but it still isn't news.

All the drivers will see re-runs of the race and see the other team's behaviour, and it doesn't matter how thick skinned you are, it will still erode your patience. I personally love to see the pit crews lining the finishing straight, catching the bottle of champagne, even walking away from a good stop congratulating each other, I won't begrudge them some biased cheers, but I may complain about the director.

I think sportsmanship is still there, I think it could be helped, but, as with anything that gets the attention of the media, the representation of sportsmanship is dying before our eyes, and because of the way F1 works that will occasionally effect the way drivers will react in a given situation.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
F1 isn't a sport though, it's a business.

In the "good old days" F1 was a very different animal to what it is today.
 
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