Ferrari, McLaren are more entertaining than you. Do you understand?

[RasputinLives]

Sad to see some of the mud slinging going on here, people piece 1 + 1 and get all kinds of notions about Fernando Alonso calling the shots at Ferrari, deciding who, what and where must happen. It just decends into Anti-Alonso jibes because of one moment in his career that he has long since moved on from.

Perez "Alonso-Slayer", wonder how long it took you to think of that one? Again it is what a person wants to see, rather than what possibly will or won't happen.

I see with Alonso the exact kind of hate that people had when Schumacher was the face of Ferrari.

Oh dear someone is a bit touchy. The phrase "Alonso-Slayer" is actually me paraphrasing the term "Schumacher-Slayer" which was used for good old Fernando when he finally toppled Schumi's dominant 5 year championship run. I used it to suggest if Perez came to Ferrari in the future he might give Alonso a run for his money. I hadn't realised it was such a hate filled statement.

If you bother to read anything I post you'd probably realise I rate Alonso as one of the 3 top drivers and often jump to his defence. I think you probably know that - I actually think this is more about the fact that I suggested your theory that Massa has slow pitstops because he 'rocks' the car when he comes in on another thread was a load of nonsense. Seems grudges are held and accusations are made which is a classic way of trying to make people disregard someones opinion by suggesting they are biased.

Anyways this is all rather silly isn't it?

Back on topic. Although we all prefer Mclaren's current way of doing things(myself included) I think if you look you can see the Red Bull way of doing things has actually proved to be the far more succesful one hence why teams apply it.

 

[Brogan]

Back on topic. Although we all prefer Mclaren's current way of doing things(myself included) I think if you look you can see the Red Bull way of doing things has actually proved to be the far more succesful one hence why teams apply it.

Indeed.

Without a doubt it cost McLaren both titles in 2007 because they didn't take that approach.

 

[cider_and_toast]

MODERATOR COMMENT

All. We are touching on the side of becoming personal now. I believe this aspect of the discussion has been discussed enough. Please could we continue the debate on the different styles between Mclaren and Ferrari and leave out comments regarding individuals.

 

[The Artist.....]

There have always been suspicions that both McLaren and Ferrari have, at points in their history, employed team orders.

During the Schumacher years, the team orders were absolutely plain for everyone to see, and similarly, in '97 and '98, there were clear examples of Coulthard being asked to move over in favour of Hakkinen.

However, beyond these clear actions, there have been far more insidious examples of team orders/team favouritism.

For example, at Ferrari in 1990, there was clear evidence that the team was right behind Prost (for example when chassis were changed without Mansell being told).... Similarly, there was evidence at McLaren in 2007 that the team may well have been supporting Hamilton slightly more than Alonso (Or alternatively Alonso more than Hamilton early in the season!)

Very few teams have just let their drivers race - Williams was an example in 1986/87 - but this led to them losing the WDC in 86! McLaren in '88 and '89 was another example...

In general, I think the signal is that if a team employs 2 drivers who are clearly capable of producing world championships, then it is employing an equal driver policy. If it employs 1 driver who would go for the world championship and 1 driver who would only be in a championship winning position through a little bit of luck, then it is (likely) that it will focus more on 1 driver than the other!

At present, Ferrari seem to have 1 contender and 1 makeweight... McLaren have 2 very fast race drivers (Albeit 1 slightly slower qualifier at the moment!)

Red Bull, as with Ferrari, have 1 contender and 1 makeweight,..... Remember that arguably the only reason that Webber was in contention last year was because of all of Vettel's unreliability in the early part of the year!

 

[RossTheBoss]

Red Bull, as with Ferrari, have 1 contender and 1 makeweight,..... Remember that arguably the only reason that Webber was in contention last year was because of all of Vettel's unreliability in the early part of the year!

Partly true but at the same time Webber drove brilliantly in Spain, Britain and Monaco last year and in all 3 of those races he outperformed Vettel. He may or may not have got past him in Hungary as well. In my view Mark hasn't got over Korea and losing the championship. I think its continuing to haunt him and he has to get over that ASAP in my view. Maybe 2012 he can launch a title assault. He's good enough IMO.

 

[Sarinaide]

Again it is Ferrari in the position that the team finds itself, right now the team are closer to 4th placed Mercedes Petronas than they are to RBR, so when one driver has a greater than 2:1 points ratio, you tend to see a more logical strategy where there is a looked after driver. In the current predicament, they need Massa to put himself in the for-runners picture but, really we have been waiting for that all season without it being forthcoming.

As it has been mentioned, McLaren have two drivers matching each other and RBR have a similarish Ferrari situation, the difference being Webber is far more competitive.

It was mentioned prior, winning is what it is all about, not entertainment, and besides winning entertains one side, but to others it will be boring, so again it is down to perspective.

 

[RasputinLives]

sorry CaT.

Its interesting we only look at the top teams on this front. Virgin have a blatent number 1 in Timo Glock who gets all the updates and the team build round him but that seems to be accepted more.

 

[Slyboogy]

Agreed, but the thread title wouldn't have worked quite so well if I had added Red Bull to it

That says it all really....

If you think McLaren were fair in 2008, I suggest you read Cider's post, I was looking for that article for a while, Cider found it before so

And RickD you say my answer is flawed regarding the Button and Hamilton championship is it really? He is 12 points behind Hamilton which is a 4th place difference, as much I think Hamilton has the better shot, they are both in the championship, the margin is very little, if they back one driver and he slips in a race, the other is back in it and will probably be ahead. Hence why they "let them race"....that was point and it won't change.

It's clear that Ferrari have a favourite, every championship winning time has, do, will have a championship favourite. I very much doubt McLaren would let Button and Hamilton race wheel to wheel if there was a "75 point" gap (which is the gap between Massa and Alonso) and if one of them was in the championship, and the other have that much of a deficiet.

Australia 2010, Malaysia 2010 and in China 2010, they let them both race, this year they haven't been near each other at the start of the season as one is ahead of the other by a margin vice versa, this was the only time we saw them together on track this season, and that's when one has a chance for the title and the other with no hope.

 

[Brogan]

That says it all really....

Says what all?
The title is a reference to the now famous instruction issued by Ferrari.
Red Bull didn't say that, hence why I used Ferrari, as it wouldn't have had the same context.

It was also in reference to this specific race, in which there was one team with clear team orders and another without.

I really wish people would stop reading more into things than exist.

 

[Slyboogy]

You could have named article like "McLaren let their drivers race", but as the article suggests by looking at it, looks as if it's a dig at the red team.

It seems as if you are accusing of Ferrari of not letting their drivers "race" while in the article you say that or agree that Red Bull do the same...

However I am not at all bothered as I am not a Ferrari fan, more so a Toro Rosso one

 

[Brogan]

Sigh...

/gives up

The wasp's nest of umbrage has been stirred by what was (to me) a wry comment on the relative racing philosophies of two iconic teams...

Glad someone got it