Ferrari, McLaren are more entertaining than you. Do you understand?

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Ferrari may have the longest history in F1 and one of the greatest heritages, but for me they are a dull, dull racing team.

Once again yesterday we saw the number 2 driver allow the number 1 driver past without so much as a token gesture of putting up the slightest bit of resistance.
This makes for extremely dull "racing".

McLaren on the other hand allowed their drivers to go at it wheel to wheel, with no holds barred. Again.
How refreshing to see 2 drivers from the same team actually racing each other, and I defy anyone to claim it wasn't exciting.

Ferrari may have more trophies than any other team, but good grief they're boring.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
In Ferrari's defence though (urgh, did I really say that? LOL ) it's only been as a result of the Schumacher years where they learn't a whole new way to win the title with that ultra ruthless, one driver takes all method that this has become the case. If you look at some of the Ferrari driver pairings of the past I believe they weren't so constrained by the team. I can think of Mansell and Prost, Alesi and Berger even Scheckter and Villeneuve or Villeneuve and Pironi (all though that's not quite the same).
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Its all relative though isn't it? I mean when Mclaren had Mika and DC with team orders in place there they were massively dull, same when it was Lewis and Kovi. Meanwhile Ferrari had they're supposed number 2 Massa taking it to Kimi in 08 and 09.

After Prost Senna was a stirct number 1 and no one who could go wheel to wheel with him was employed by Mclaren - that was dull wasn't it?

in 86 and 87 Williams were the exciting team as we saw Piquet and Mansell battle it out - all changed by 92 and 93 though when there was a strict pecking order and dull dull dull.

What comes around goes around
 

RevMaxPower

Banned
My view is that an Italian manufacturer should try running with a couple of very excitable drivers. Lots of arm waving, foot stamping and raised voices.

That should liven things up a bit for them.

And us.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
I've read a number of times that Enzo Ferrari personally picked drivers who in his opinion had a certain spark when it came to driving. Nigel Mansell was very proud to have been personally selected by Enzo and I believe he was the last driver to sign for Ferrari before the chairman passed away.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Most world championships, Most constructors world championships, most grand prix wins with a works engine, most consecutive races without machanical failure. I don't know, the sport seems dull without Ferrari.
 

sobriety

Pole Sitter
Most world championships, Most constructors world championships, most grand prix wins with a works engine, most consecutive races without machanical failure. I don't know, the sport seems dull without Ferrari.

Winning everything doesn't make it more exciting. I can see why Ferarri do it though, they've decided that their best hope lies with Alonso, although you have to wonder if Massa would be more motivated if he was allowed to race, but I'm sure there's another thread for that.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think we would be saying things differently in 2008-2009 when the situations here reversed :whistle:

I have nothing much left to say on the article really...
 

jez101

Bookies drive nice cars because of people like me
Contributor
My 7 year old son was going on all day about the passing and repassing between Lewis and Jenson yesterday. He saw two guys racing and it made a massive impression. That was what this sport is all about. Racing. McLaren do, Ferrrai don't.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Presumably you're referring to when Kovalainen was driving for McLaren?

Other than that one race where Hamilton drove clean past him (as well as several other drivers on the same lap), can you tell me when Kovalainen was instructed to allow Hamilton past as Massa was, or quite obviously moved over as Massa did at Hungary?

I've seen this alluded to over the years but it's just another unproven conspiracy theory in my opinion.

If McLaren were willing to let Hamilton and Alonso fight it out on the circuit, and now Hamilton and Button, what possible reason would they have for not allowing Hamilton and Kovalainen?
 

ExtremeNinja

Karting amateur
Contributor
Presumably you're referring to when Kovalainen was driving for McLaren?

Other than that one race where Hamilton drove clean past him (as well as several other drivers on the same lap), can you tell me when Kovalainen was instructed to allow Hamilton past as Massa was, or quite obviously moved over as Massa did at Hungary?

I've seen this alluded to over the years but it's just another unproven conspiracy theory in my opinion.

If McLaren were willing to let Hamilton and Alonso fight it out on the circuit, and now Hamilton and Button, what possible reason would they have for not allowing Hamilton and Kovalainen?

Slightly off-topic, but since you have made me think. Vettel and Kovelienen. Similar animals.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I am not going to say much further on the matter...

This seems like a dig to Ferrari from a mclaren fan...

I have already raised this point either in the Massa or Alonso thread.

Do you really think that a team would let one of it's drivers who is not in contention for the championship fight his team-mate that has a chance (albeit slight?)

Di Resta let Sutil through in Melbourne this year without a fight...as have many other team-mates.

As for Ferrari, I don't like the way they have gone about their business in the past two years, but I understand the situation, and other teams have done the same as Ferrari.

I am sure if Hamilton or Button had a much bigger lead over the other in the championship and one of them be out of contention they wouldn't be allowed to fight.

Two different situations which are hard to compare, button and Hamilton are very close to each other in the championship and both have a slight chance of winning it, at Ferrari the situation is different Alonso has a big gap to Massa (for various reasons) and has a slight chance of winning it.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
I think we would be saying things differently in 2008-2009 when the situations here reversed :whistle:

Are you not forgetting China 2008? And Brazil 2007. Even though you're probably right about the 2008 with McLaren it may or may not have been the case, seeing as in both circumstances Hamilton was much faster than Kovalainen and past other cars with similar ease. Whereas in both the Ferrari examples it was a pretty blatant breach of the rules.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
First of all brazil 2007 Massa was setting purple times after he came out of the pits to jump Raikkonen while Raikkonen was setting purples himself, that has been stated many times if you don't believe me check the times for yourself.

China 2008 I agree with you on, but that is just as bad as Germany 2008 where it was "just" as "obvious" as was Canada 08 with BMW and so on...

So mclaren breached the rule clearly in 2008 once as did Ferrari however 2007 is a different matter the evidence is there, check the 2007 review book where it has all the laptime delta, you can check other places aswell.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
So the crux of it all is that Michael Schumacher didn't earn his seven world championships because Alesi, Irvine and Barrichello were systematically told to let him by.

Whether you like it or not Ferrari is part of the furniture so it appears and the sport without Ferrari will be a crying shame, non more so than the fact that Ferrari like Renault are the only Works teams left.

This season Ferrari are in a bit of a bother, the major reason is that unlike last season Massa is nowhere and any attempt to use him in a beneficial manner will be seen as Pro-Alonso, it is the mentality that people have against Ferrari and Alonso, which is unqualified and unfounded.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
This seems like a dig to Ferrari from a mclaren fan...
Wrong.

It's a dig at Ferrari from a motorsports fan...

This season Ferrari are in a bit of a bother, the major reason is that unlike last season Massa is nowhere and any attempt to use him in a beneficial manner will be seen as Pro-Alonso
Even when Massa was somewhere like last season, less than 1 win behind Alonso, he was still ordered to move over, so that argument is baseless.

Massa is nowhere this season because that is precisely where he's allowed to be.
If you beat a dog enough, eventually it stops barking.
 
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