Ferrari denies Alonso is No.1 driver

[FB]

Point by point:

Mclaren/Alonso/Ferrari Dossier

The 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix was a controversial weekend for McLaren; Alonso held Hamilton up in the pit lane during qualifying, denying Hamilton a chance to record a final lap time. TV pictures showed Ron Dennis angrily throwing his headphones down as Alonso pulled out of the pits, and after the session was over he was then shown having a serious conversation with Alonso's trainer. On the morning of the race (August 5), Alonso met Ron Dennis in his motorhome and allegedly threatened to send his email exchanges with McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and Coughlan to the FIA.

On 5 September 2007, the FIA announced that it had received new evidence regarding the case, and would re-open the investigation on September 13. This replaced the planned appeal hearing.[26] It later transpired that this new evidence were the driver's emails sent to Bernie Ecclestone, F1's commercial rights holder who then informed the FIA.[27] The FIA requested the three McLaren drivers (Alonso, Hamilton and de la Rosa) to provide relevant evidence and help FIA in further investigation. In return FIA offered assurance that any information made available would not result in any proceeding against the driver personally under the International Sporting Code or the Formula One Regulations.

You can read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Formu ... ontroversy

In Singapore there was a mysterious person X who gave evidence to the FIA. It is widely speculated that this is either one of Alonso's race engineers or Alonso himself. Given Alonso avoided punishment over the "spygate" affair by going to the FIA it is quite likely that he got the same protection over "crashgate". One would also have to ask why Alonso agreed to such a bizarre race strategy in Singapore if he wasn't aware of the plans Briatore and Symonds had concocted.

On the events in Germany this year, it is clear Alonso is putting pressure on the Ferrrari team via his radio tranmissions to get Massa to move over. He made similar outbursts in Australia (if I recall) but the team didn't cede to them, in Germany they did.

Your passion for Alonso ladyinred is admirable but also blinkered.

 

[RickD]

One of the main problems I think many of us have with Alonso is that he attracts controversy wherever he goes. He cost McLaren millions and lost them both the drivers and constructors titles in 2007. He was involved in F1 worst race fixing scandal in 2008, albeit he denies any culpability, and now at Ferrari he has created a situation where the team blatantly broke the rules solely for his benefit. He's a fast and exciting driver but for most F1 fans, rather than those who support a particular driver or team, he's not been great for the sport.

You are not right.
Not he cost millions for Mclaren. It was the team who made bad. What did he wrong for give him the guilt?
But these are old storys and my english is not good enough to discute this.
in the worst race fixing scandal in 2008 he didn't do anything too. All you can do ist suspect, but the FIA speak him innocent and there are no proofs that he was involved.
And how you are sure, that it was the spaniard who created a situation in Ferrari where the team blatantly broke the rules??

And YES he IS very great for this sport!

Isn't it funny how controversy follows him around in nearly every team he has been in.

You have to be quite naive to believe that he was innocent in either the McLaren issue or the Renault setup. You have to be doubly naive to believe that Ferrari didn't have any McLaren data as well..

Oh well, enjoy your tinted spectacles..

 

[ladyinred]

Point by point:

In the spy affair Alonso was involved like DelaRosa y other teammates. But it was on Dennis to control his team & he say still end that he don't know anything.

Mr. X was not Alonso! Its only unfounded speculation
The Daily Mail has reported that Witness X was Alan Permane, the team's chief race engineer.

Ferrari make stallorder like other teams do two, only they do it transparent. Where is the problem?
Alonso is the onlyone who could reach the title, Massa isn't good this year.

 

[Brogan]

Alonso is the onlyone who could reach the title, Massa isn't good this year.

If Massa had been allowed to win at Germany, he would have been less than a win behind Alonso, with 8 races to go.

 

[Speshal]

Alonso is the onlyone who could reach the title, Massa isn't good this year.

If Massa had been allowed to win at Germany, he would have been less than a win behind Alonso, with 8 races to go.

Don't come here bandying your "facts" about brogan, whatever next*?













*The tongue is firmly in cheek

 

[sportsman]

Alonso is the onlyone who could reach the title, Massa isn't good this year.

If Massa had been allowed to win at Germany, he would have been less than a win behind Alons, with 8 races to go.

Pack it in.Fact has no room in this thread.
The fact that Massa is so slow that in June Ferrari extended his contract until the end of the 2012 season.
They think that he might just learn to go a bit faster.

 

[teabagyokel]

The Daily Mail has reported that Witness X was Alan Permane, the team's chief race engineer.

Please don't assume because something is in the Daily Mail then it is true. It isn't.

Either way, I do not believe Alonso did not have an input on strategy at Renault. To his credit, he's been informing the team of his strategy rather than vice-versa on several occasions this season. This is why I find it difficult that he would ever agree to a daft early stop strategy* without receiving an adequate explanation from Symonds or Briatore.

Whether the explanation had to include his odious team-mate binning it at turn 17 is a matter of opinion.

Something that struck me as odd after the race, come to think of it, was Alonso talking about his victory celebration; he said he'd worked it out with friends before the race. He does have great self-belief but I can't imagine he was expecting to win that race.

As for 2007, I don't believe for a second that any other team would not have used information they had on a better/equivalent car in the same manner. However, I do believe that there is no other driver on the grid who would at any point for any reason throw a tantrum and shop his team in for such an offence, knowing full well it could result in their (and hence his) elimination from the Championship. I cannot imagine anyone being quite stupid enough to do it!

*Remember this was when great success was secured by numerous teams (including Renault at Hockenheim) with Safety Car races by pitting late.

 

[Speshal]

Apparently Felipe isn't a #2 driver

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has emphasised that Felipe Massa will not become a permanent number two driver, even though Fernando Alonso has ended up being the focus of the team's title push this season.

But the Italian made it clear that Massa was still regarded as Alonso's equal by the team, despite the current situation, and that both drivers would start 2011 with an even chance.

Yeah, right I belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeve you Luca

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87218

 

[ATL11]

Apparently Felipe isn't a #2 driver

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87218

Well we'll see this weekend?

See if Massa comes out in front of Alonso & if it sticks? Cause he's faster than him, he really is, really really fast, sorry about that mate.....in my best Yorkshire accent.

 

[ladyinred]

Monte speaks tacheless

“Unfortunately, the situation in the Constructors’ took a knock because Felipe [Massa] had to retire after the accident at the start.

"I am very disappointed for our driver, who despite a less than brilliant grid position had every chance of having a good race.

Ferrari is tired to give massa support. Clear words from Monte and Dyer.

 

[FB]

Given all the rumblings about Massa from Ferrari it makes you wonder if he will be there next season. But this begs the question what self respecting top-line driver would want to go to the Scuderia to play 2nd fiddle to Alonso? Sounds to me like Alonso need a Jonny Dumfries type team mate but Ferrari will never win the Constructors Championship if they go down that road.

 

[Brogan]

Given all the rumblings about Massa from Ferrari it makes you wonder if he will be there next season.

I had the same thought hence the new poll on the home page

 

[RickD]

Out of the current crop, I can only see someone like Luizzi or Petrov going there just to still have a drive, Luizzi is less likely as the Italians won't like it if an Italian is treated as a No.2..

Not sure who else would be willing, but I bet there are a few who have no pride in themselves, espacially having to p[lay No.2 to a driver who likes throwing things out of his pram when it doesn't go his way..

 

[ATL11]

It is a shame we couldn;t see Kubica there, but as we know that will never happen, as you can't let talent like that play 2nd fiddle. I reckon Kubica would be better in the Ferrari than Alonso, the car would suit his driving style...

 

[F1Yorkshire]

There is an interesting piece on this in the telegraph, apparently Massa is no longer trying to compete and has had enough of playing second fiddle to Fernando 'My way or the highway' Alonso.

It seems that Ferrari's plan is backfiring as Alonso has been left to fight for the championship alone with no team mate taking points away from the other title contenders. This will seriously affect the relationship the drivers have going into 2011 and it is fuelling further rumours that Massa will be moving on some time in the future.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tomc ... mpionship/

Over the Japanese Grand Prix weekend, team principal Stefano Domenicali was forced to deny for the umpteenth time speculation that Massa will no longer be a Ferrari driver in 2011, describing those reports as ‘categorically wrong…

However, that was before Massa failed to make Q3 (Alonso qualified fifth fastest) and then crashed out of the race itself at the first corner, ramming the Force India of Vitantonio Liuzzi. It set tongues wagging anew that the Brazilian is simply not up for helping his team following Ferrari’s use of team orders back at Hockenheim

.....

If Felipe doesn’t raise his game in Korea, though, he surely can’t fail to give it 100 per cent in Brazil. He loves Interlagos, he will have home support, and it would be no surprise if he had a say in the podium positions. Imagine if he was ordered to make way for Fernando to win there? If he accepted there would be a riot. Literally. If he refused, my 2011 prediction could be wide of the mark.

I can just imagine the interlagos crowd if this happened, the Brazillians are fanatical over their sport and if their hero is forced to make way for Alonso I would not like to be stood up on that podium unless I'm still wearing my helmet!

 

[Brogan]

As far as I was aware, Massa was already soundly criticised in Brazil and lost a lot of support for moving over in Germany.

Presumably then the Brazilians have forgiven him that and are now supporting him again?

 

[Jen]

So Massa suddenly has a conscience! He didn't mind moving over or acting as rear gunner for Schumi - what's the difference - anyone know for certain?

 

[teabagyokel]

I think, jen, the difference between Massa (2006) and Massa (2010) is that the 2010 version has the confidence of a man who was one corner away from becoming Drivers' Champion, and feels more comfortable fighting the top drivers without feeling as inferior as he did when he was paired with Schumi.

 

[ATL11]

Can't help aswell as there are rumour's Ferrari have contacted McLaren about Lewis driving for Ferrari, not sure whether now or in future years....