Bridgestone's Tired Allocations till Turkey!

snowy

Champion Elect
Bridgestone have announced the tyre allocations for the next 5 GPs and it isn't good, since they are minding the gap! In stark contrast to the sane option of allowing the teams some form of choice in strategy they have opted to make it a no brainer to qualify on the softer tyre and start the race on that tyre if you make quali 3! :givemestrength: :givemestrength: :givemestrength: :givemestrength: :givemestrength: :givemestrength:

The soft and hard options are the choice for Malaysia, China, Spain and Turkey, with the super soft and medium compounds for Monaco.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82330
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
I've already made my feelings known on the tyre issue.

Get rid of all the restrictions and rules and let the teams and drivers choose the tyres they want to use.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
It was the one option F1 could have made without having to rewrite the rule book. It was patently obvious last season that it doesn't work and it was patently obvious from the last race that it still doesn't work! :crazy:

Bridgestone should bring three types of tyre to a race and get rid of the ridiculous "you have to use both types of tyre" rule and we would be 70% of the way to great racing.
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
Personally I don't see what the problem is with having to use two different compounds,

It brings a bit of strategy to Formula 1, a bit of technical thinking on thew Drivers side too. Yes we all love the out-out ballsy racers, but drivers with a few brain cells should be rewarded too.

Also the idea that Strategy did not exist until 1994 is verging on the idiotic quite frankly. In an era when if you pushed 100% all the time you would either kill yourself or break the car. The drivers had to use some of that grey matter to know when to push more when to hold back, sense when a driver is struggling apposed to saving the car a little.

The problem with tyres i have tho, is that according to some talk in F1 a set of hard tyres could of lasted the whole race quite easily. I like the idea of driver managing the tyres i think is a good one. And i agree with some of the talk that perhaps the tyres are too good.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Different cars have different characteristics, different teams have different approaches, different drivers have different preferences and styles. There is no need to legislate the use of different tyres, if the tyre supplier provides different compounds different teams will make different decisions and use different approaches and strategies to win races. They will try to outguess and manuvre each other naturally, telling them they have to use this or that only makes the strategies converge on a homogonised strategy.

It sucks big time and it epitimises the small minded beaurocratic dictatorial style of the FIA, who have little or no concept of creativity and ingenuity. They just think along blinkered lines, endlessly repeating the same mistakes over and over, incapable of thinking outside the box. It is actually a very good reflection of most societies, imposing order on people and seldom if ever recognising or encouraging creativity, inventiveness and passion.

If a team can make it to the end of the race on one set of tyres is it not possible that a team could make it to the end of a race on two sets of a softer tyre? Is it not possible that the person who changes his tyres will at some point hunt down and have to pass a car with an old set of worn tyres? Wouldn't that actually be interesting to watch? I actually used to prefer seeing that kind of senario being played out, I actually miss those kind of events that we haven't really seen since 93.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
snowy said:
Different cars have different characteristics, different teams have different approaches, different drivers have different preferences and styles. There is no need to legislate the use of different tyres, if the tyre supplier provides different compounds different teams will make different decisions and use different approaches and strategies to win races. They will try to outguess and manuvre each other naturally, telling them they have to use this or that only makes the strategies converge on a homogonised strategy.

It sucks big time and it epitimises the small minded beaurocratic dictatorial style of the FIA, who have little or no concept of creativity and ingenuity. They just think along blinkered lines, endlessly repeating the same mistakes over and over, incapable of thinking outside the box. It is actually a very good reflection of most societies, imposing order on people and seldom if ever recognising or encouraging creativity, inventiveness and passion.

If a team can make it to the end of the race on one set of tyres is it not possible that a team could make it to the end of a race on two sets of a softer tyre? Is it not possible that the person who changes his tyres will at some point hunt down and have to pass a car with an old set of worn tyres? Wouldn't that actually be interesting to watch? I actually used to prefer seeing that kind of senario being played out, I actually miss those kind of events that we haven't really seen since 93.


Help yourself -
images
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Both Williams drivers were scheduled to complete the race without a tyre change, but due to the worsening vibration and given a comfortable gap back to Senna in third place, Mansell and the team elected to make a stop in order to change tyres and solve the problem. Mansell rejoined the race some 29 seconds behind Piquet, with 28 laps remaining. On fresh rubber to Piquet's worn Mansell began an epic charge which saw the lap record broken 11 times. By lap 62 the two cars were nose to tail and on lap 63 Mansell performed his now famous 'Silverstone Two Step' move, selling Piquet a dummy on the Hangar Straight and then diving down the inside into Stowe Corner. Mansell ran out of fuel on the slowing down lap and was engulfed by the crowd. Unknown to the outside world at the time his fuel gauge had been in the red two laps before the finish, as he crossed the line it was still showing him to be 2 litres short.

A bit like this classic from the 1987 British GP. Of course with the current system of mandatory tyre stops we would would have never got to see that.
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
I think I can tell im back lol,

So thats less then an hour from my first post before somebody completely and utterly disagrees with me ROFL.

anyhow...... I think theres a lot of things that Formula One has got wrong, They have certainly gone down the wrong road with some of the changes.

Snowy I Think you make some good points I just cannot understand how or why having to use two different compounds is one of the problems or detracts from Formula 1.

I think at the end of the Day, Letting Drivers use the compounds they want would actually make Formula One worse, Although that says more of the other rule changes in F1. It gives something for an Formula One driver too think about, gives a bit of variety of different strategies and shows the skill of the thinking mans driver, as I i feel it will something the Driver will have influence over rather then the men back at base on there computers.

I don't see how its damaging F1, I don't see how there would be artificial racing. And i think it is the last of F1s problems at the moment.

When all is said and done, The driver who has the right balance of speed and intelligence (ansd of course in the right car) will still win the race.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
I know that the situation was slightly false because all the teams had to use there inters for the first few laps of the race but surely todays GP is proof that the compulsory use of the two compounds should be scrapped with immediate effect.

Once all the cars were using the same rubber and most of them changed on the same lap, the race became fascinating. It was exactly what we were hoping for in a war of tyre management and driving style. They guys that pitted towards the end putting themselves on fresh rubber were at times lapping at 1.5 to 2 seconds quicker than everyone else. This is something we don't get to see with the present stupid rules.

Surely someone in the FIA / powers that be, would have sat up and noticed just how much overaking there was BECAUSE THE CARS DIDN'T HAVE TO STOP if they didn't want to.

I would love to see just one race without that rule to see if it really would make a difference. Failing that the closest we could get to seeing it is a dry race with a lap 1 safety car which would bring every car in to change tyres allowing them to plan the rest of the race as they see fit.
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
Couldn't agree more and the point has been made several times already.

Sadly we all know it won't change as the FIA are too stubborn and most likely there are legal and financial penalties for various parties if the rules are changed.
 

genji

Banned
cider_and_toast said:
I know that the situation was slightly false because all the teams had to use there inters for the first few laps of the race but surely todays GP is proof that the compulsory use of the two compounds should be scrapped with immediate effect.
Absolutely. It's right there in front of them. We don't need wider front tyres or more restrictive rules. Just let the teams do what they want to.

The problem is any rule change needs to be unanimous and here's how the votes would go:

FIA: aye
FOM: aye
McLaren: aye
Mercedes: aye
Red Bull: aye
Ferrari: aye
Williams: aye
Renault: aye
Force India: aye
Toro Rosso: aye
Lotus: aye
HRT: aye
Sauber: aye
Virgin: aye
Bridgestone: nay

Bridgestone is the fly in the ointment.
 

genji

Banned
cider_and_toast said:
As has been said before, how can the FIA let the tail wag the dog !!! >:(
Well, they get free tyres, don't they? Like they get free circuits.

Two options: the FIA pay for the tyres, or the teams pay for the tyres and are permitted to strike whatever deals with tyre suppliers they can.
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
I know i seem to be a bit of a one man army here.

But todays race i think had little todo with not having to use the two tire compounds. More todo with the conditions.

I don't think it is at the root of any problems, If you could use any tires then on dry days all the teams will still use a similar strategy.

I think Australia actually shown very little for either argument. Although I actually dont really care about which rules are used. I just think to pin any blame on the current tire rules are wrong.
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
Well the rain removed the "must use both tyres" rule so after everyone pitted for slicks, drivers/teams were free to choose whether to stay out on 1 set or pit for a 2nd set.

So if you imagine the race started from the first round of pit stops then we had different strategies.

With a normal dry race everyone would have to stop at least once and in Australia that would only have been once which would have meant everyone was on the same strategy.

The sooner the 2 tyre rule is ditched the better.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Andrea_Moda_Rules said:
Although I actually dont really care about which rules are used. I just think to pin any blame on the current tire rules are wrong.

I think you have to pin some of the blame on the current rules and there is no escaping that fact. The current rules were written in an attempt to maximise racing in an era of re-fueling. Up until last year the cars would pit on average, twice a race and within a handful of laps of each other. The theory being that if you force the teams to use different types of tyre compound there should be an occasion when at least two rival teams will be on the less effective rubber compound and which should hamper their progress. You only had to use the poorer of the two compounds for a third of the race.

Now that there is no longer refueling every race is almost ceratainly going to be a one stopper. In this case virtually every team will start on the optimum tyre (especially for qually) and then as we saw in Bahrain already the pit stops will come within a handful of laps of each other and out they'll go again gaining nothing except everyone is now on the opposite tyre. I guarentee, under the present rules, if there was a lap one safety car in a dry race, every single team on the option tyre would pit and change to primes. That would instantly make a mockery of the two tyre rule.

If you look at Melbourne in particular. Before the shower caused everyone to change to inters Martin Brundle was telling us folks at home that the teams would be coming in around lap 20 to change tyres. After everyone started the race and also keep in mind that there were only the smallest handful of racing laps on inters after the safety car pulled in, it was open house on strategy. Who was going to pit and when was a mystery. Unpredictability is what F1 should be about not knowing exactly when someone is going to pit and what tyre they're going to use.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Here is a pretty sound argument for a hard tyre, perhaps the teams could have just one set for an entire weekend or even a span of GP's. With just one compound for the entire season it would save an enormous fortune as well. It would also make any tyre development far more relevant to road cars, with innovation geared to durability over grip.

All that is required is a tyre specification that is hard. Really hard. Really, really hard. REALLY HARD! A tyre that is not capable of fully transmitting the drive of the most powerful engines, the braking force of the best brakes and the aerodynamic grip so carefully authored by geniuses armed with banks of computers. Moreover, a tyre so hard that it cannot shred and shed itself into tiny balls inevitably winding up on the track surface either side of the racing line and rendering the "off" line route required to overtake as undrivable. As a benchmark, think terms of a tyre that offers about the same degree of grip on a dry circuit as the present wet option offers on a damp one.

Feature by Glen Crompton @
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
If you go for a really hard tyre, the teams will look even harder for aero grip to compensate, with even less chance of overtaking.
 
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