Ayrton Senna

Today (19 August 2011) "Senna" opens in Toronto and i'm taking off early from work to catch a matinee' viewing. This is about as good a time as any to open this thread...

From Prost's thread:

This has to be said and i'll say it again here...

The director of the movie "Senna" - Asif Kapadia - was on a Motor Sport Magazine podcast with then McLaren manager Jo Ramirez (who, unusually, was a trusted friend of both Senna and Prost)...and in the podcast he said something like this:

(Paraphrasing) "We had access to all of Bernies archives...and when we looked at the video of the cars coming out of Tosa at Imola, Schumacher's Benetton was the only car which exhibited unusual signs of, *ahem*, traction control...even the other Benetton didn't have it..."

Go to the Motor Sport Magazine website and click on 'podcasts' and listen for yourselves (June 15th podcast, I think).

Why do I bring it up? Well Senna suspected Schumacher's Benetton B194 had TC/LC and was driving out of his skin to make up for the difference. He noticed that it sounded and behaved differently (to even Verstappen's B194) while he watched them circulating from the wall after retiring at Aida (the second race of the year).

I don't need to go on about it, but you get the point.

Where does Prost come into this? Well, the Podcast goes into how Senna was on the telephone with Prost during that time talking, among other things, about that precise matter.

If Senna said that Schumi's car was using a form of TC, then personally I'd believe him. Prost believed Senna too. There aren't exactly any better qualified people to know such a thing. One thing I must say, however, is that despite the fact that Senna was trying to make up the difference through his own driving to keep up with Schumacher, I don't think this had anything to do with his death, something that a few twisted people (in my opinion) seem to think. Tamburello is not a corner that should worry an F1 car, even back then.

There was no greater expert on the sights and sounds of a Formula One car at Aida that day than Senna himself...And if his expert ears and eyes noted that only Schumacher's B194 sounded and reacted like it had traction control then i'm going to believe it. Period.

As per the accident at Tamburello...well, the saftey car that day wasn't exactly a Mercedes-Benz AMG...I believe it was an Opel and, as a result, a bit 'too' slow. The tyre pressures dropped significantly and that would have affected the ride height. Tamburello had a few bumps and when they went flat out again right after the SC pulled in, there's a reasonable chance the ride height wasn't what Senna would have imagined it to be.

[Safety Cars were a newer phenomenon in Formula One back then too, by the way. They were first properly introduced the year before (1993) and used only in two Grand Prix races.

They made many rule changes after that race, including making sure Safety Cars were faster so as to ensure tyre pressures didn't fall off significantly.]

Regardless, what are CTA members' memories and thoughts of Senna?

Mine were mixed. I thought he was immense and the fastest since Villeneuve ... but a bully. I was never his biggest fan primarily because his on track tactics at times bordered on insanity. Whereas Villeneuve risked his own life mainly, Senna didn't seem to have a problem with risking other drivers' lives while he was taking chances with his own.

Having said that, i'd rate the Brazilian thus All Time:

1= Senna
1= Prost
3. Clark
4. Fangio
5. Schumacher
6= Stewart
6= Moss

What are your thoughts and memories of the man and the driver?
 
I said there were numerous reasons and the reason I used the word significance was due to the global impact his death had. Because his accident occurred during a Grand Prix it was the first time a World Champions death was witnessed live all around the world and due to his immense popularity in Brazil, the following three days played out on our television screens right through to his State Funeral and burial in Sao Paulo.
I certainly wasn't suggesting his death was any more tragic than any other persons, but due to the impact his death had on the people of Brazil and on others all over the world, including many who weren't even interested in motor racing, every aspect related to the loss of Senna had added significance. It was stated at the time that the only time in the 20th century there had been a greater showing of public grief was at Gandhi's funeral.
 
Last edited:
I must be a bit weird then because I can't grieve for someone I never knew I may feel a bit sorry for them but grieve no chance and I certainly can't do it twenty odd years later.

And as for Gandhi I don't even know when he died..
 
Last edited:
One year before I was born so just before my time also. Love the country and its people so I'm interested in its history. If you haven't seen the movie 'Gandhi' you should, it's one of the truly great films. Directed by another great man, Richard Attenborough and starring Ben Kingsley. A must see. I'm assuming you haven't seen it due to your previous posting when you said you didn't know when Gandhi died.
 
No I haven't seen it I watch films for entertainment If I want information then I will watch a documentary, this is because films that proclaim to tell a true story are only a parody of the truth, they even tell you this before you start watching they say, based on a true story, the operative word being based, this is because they manipulate the facts and embellish the truth to make it more interesting for the viewer.

The Senna film was shit and Rush bared naff all reality to the truth as to what really happened.

Nope films for entertainment and documentaries for information.

Plus I have zero interest in history...
 
Last edited:
Never mind, your choice. To me two of the greatest movies ever made both had British directors, 'Gandhi' and 'Lawrence of Arabia', but then I love history. A point worth noting Mephistopheles , a countries history defines its people, which is what makes the past so relevant. The past tells us more than we can imagine which is why it's so important to the present.
 
No we haven't, or some haven't. A good reason not to ignore history, everyone should try to learn from it. Some might, which would help the world, even if it's just a little step towards a better life for some.
 
Your absolutely right. All the more reason for those that care to keep trying to make up for those that don't. All decent people can do is hope when they leave this planet they will have made a difference in peoples lives, especially those that need help.
 
Last edited:
Jim Clark only ever came second once in his F1 career in a straight fight all the other times he either won or he had mechanical problems that prevented him from winning, so I reckon he is the greatest ever and would piss all over Senna..
 
Mephistopheles - let's not get into another who's better than who? After all, different eras and all! Senna was certainly one of the greats, albeit with a ruthless streak that hadn't been seen before in F1, buts has since been replicated by Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel, Maldonado etc...

How would Senna stack up against Clark? Sadly we'll never know! Clark was naturally quick in all the cars he raced, but so was Senna, but by the 1980s, drivers were not allowed to race in other series)- for example Mansell was given a pay rise by Colin Chapman for him NOT to race Le Mans!
 
I was not a great fan of Senna, but was devastated to watch him die on track.

I finally watched "Senna" the movie this weekend and found him to be an absolutely fascinating and charismatic individual. He drove in a time when racing was allowed, more or less, and all drivers took chances to win. He may not have been the 'cleanest' of racers - and there have been much worse since - but he certainly did his best to fulfil what he thought his destiny was.

I have huge respect for someone that focused, yet still capable of extraordinary humanity.
 
Senna's record in wet conditions is much better than his overall statistics. I don't have the actual stats with me but I think he won 65% of all the wet races he raced in. Now, that's an impresive stat He has a comparatively low number of fastest laps but I think he didn't need to go that fast as he would usually take advantage of his pole position to build an insurmountable gap, unless he'd run into trouble. By the end of his career his race craft had improved and he was converting pole positions into wins at a higher rate. Unfortunately, 94 presented the added challenge of Schumacher that would make him test his limits beyond what was physically possible with the Williams
 
Dear chaps, I was commenting on his humanity more than his race craft or stats. There is always a human within a racer and that should be recognised!
 
Back
Top Bottom