Alonso Interview On Hamilton And Vettel

[johnnoble1990]

Way I see it is the incident in Canada was 50/50, Hamilton was unfortunate in the situation while Button was fortunate but they were both to blame.

I absolutely despise the blame game in F1. I think you can remove blame and penalties from F1 and we'd have the same number of collisions, because it is the collisions themselves that are the punishment, not the arbitrary penalties.

hence can we not just judge that these are two excellent drivers and is little to choose between them.

I think this is true for all drivers. The margins are so small between drivers that it will almost always come down to how drivers perform at a given time and the speed of their car.

 

[Kewee]

Perhaps you should think before posting then.

You said, and I quote:

I merely pointed out how your summation of the situation was inaccurate.

If you want to take it over the last two years instead:
Hamilton: wins 6, podiums 15, poles 2, fastest laps 8
Button: wins 5, podiums 19, poles 0, fastest laps 4

Whichever way you look at it, your claim that "At present the scores in Jensons favor." is incorrect.

Not if it's just when both drivers driving for McLaren it isn't, as I have proven.

If you're going to include Button's championship winning year then you also need to include Hamilton's championship winning year.
Anything else would just be selective criteria and inaccurate.

That's the folly of this exercise. If you include both their Championship years then you have to include Buttons year in 2008, probably the worst year imaginable for him, when Honda were trying to run the team from Japan. No fault of his, as the complete turn around showed in 2009. Thats the point I was making, showing how slanted these sort of statistics are. They certainly don't show any comparison between these two drivers. It's worth remembering Lewis lucked into a fabulous car in 2007, Mansel's words, not mine, and it was still a very good car in his Championship year. Sadly for McLaren, they lost Alonso and found themselves wanting when they had to build a new car to suit the changing regulations and needed reliable feedback from a driver to develop it. I'm not anti Hamilton, I just believe McLaren would have done him a huge favor by giving him one year as a test driver alongside Alonso, working with him rather than trying to beat him and learning his way in F1, and more importantly, gathering valuable development skills. Most of Button's advancement through F1 has been a long hard learning experience, something he benefits from more than we can imagine, and undoubtedly something McLaren are benefiting from now. I truly believe, McLaren needs Button, Lewis needs McLaren.

 

[Viscount]

I don't have the power to end this circular Hamilton v Button debate. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let this debate go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

Sorry, not addressed at anyone specific, I've just been watching Taken!

 

[Kewee]

I don't have the power to end this circular Hamilton v Button debate. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let this debate go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

Sorry, not addressed at anyone specific, I've just been watching Taken!

Can I finish my last meal? Ok, you can kill me now.

 

[johnnoble1990]

I don't have the power to end this circular Hamilton v Button debate. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let this debate go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

Sorry, not addressed at anyone specific, I've just been watching Taken!

The last line made my bones shiver. A 5 year old girl could make this sound scary.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Button looked in his left mirror. Twice.

And then moved further left on the track than on previous and later laps.

There's a fundamental rule in motorsport at every level, the onus is on the overtaking driver to complete a pass safely.

But there's an equal onus on the driver being overtaken not to behave like Michael Schumacher block, weave or otherwise shove the overtaking driver off the track.

On balance, taking all the circumstances into account, I just can't see Canada 2011 as being Jenson's best race performance ever (best result ever, maybe). I think he drove a better race to get his first ever win, in another chaotic wet race at Hungary 2006.

 

[The Pits]

So, that interview with Alonso eh.

Not sure that it is all that interesting really, not a suitable piece to create a lot of interest.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Anyway, swifly moving on...

Back in the dim and distant past on this thread, I believe someone made a point about Vettel's propensity, before winning his first WDC title, to turn into people and crash a lot. Does anyone else still remember Turkey and Spa etc. 2010? Who would have thought then that Seb was about to become double world champ? What changed? Was it simply that he has had so much the better car for the last two seasons, or did he learn his lessons and mature very quickly, something that many would say Lewis could have learnt from?

If the Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari are reasonably evenly matched, with the added spice of a rejuvenated Raikkonen in a competitive Lotus, this season could answer a lot of questions about the relative mental strengths of both Vettel and Hamilton (especially the latter, with Lewis having by far the strongest teammate). Could be fascinating to watch; we could have five former champions all with a realistic chance of adding to their tally.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I'm not posting on this thread anymore or any other that ends up in this same old ridiculous arguments that gets nobody no where.

I thought this was a thread on the Alonso interview, the only two drivers he mentioned were Lewis and Vettel, neither Canada or Button passed by his lips, I know cuz I watched it...... .

 

[Kewee]

And then moved further left on the track than on previous and later laps.


But there's an equal onus on the driver being overtaken not to behave like Michael Schumacher block, weave or otherwise shove the overtaking driver off the track.

On balance, taking all the circumstances into account, I just can't see Canada 2011 as being Jenson's best race performance ever (best result ever, maybe). I think he drove a better race to get his first ever win, in another chaotic wet race at Hungary 2006.

The point no one can ignore during the race in Canada Chad, was the conditions caught an awful lot of the drivers out, including eventually, Vettel. I don't believe for one moment Button knew Lewis was trying a pass, even if he had checked his mirrors. From his reaction when they touched, I think it was obvious he had no idea he was there. As far as the result goes, a win from the back of the field with so few laps remaining, and considering the conditions, to me at least was one of the sports great drives and I think most of his peers would agree.

 

[Kewee]

I forgot when I posted my last comment. I'm no longer able to participate in the Button/Hamilton discussion. If I do Viscount's going to KILL ME!!!!!!!!

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I forgot when I posted my last comment. I'm no longer able to participate in the Button/Hamilton discussion. If I do Viscount's going to KILL ME!!!!!!!!

Bye bye, nice knowing you.

RIP Kewee

 

[Kewee]

Bye bye, nice knowing you.

RIP Kewee

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I'm not posting on this thread anymore or any other that ends up in this same old ridiculous aruments that gets nobody no where.
I thought this was a thread on the Alonso interview, the only two drivers he mentioned were Lewis and Vettel, neither Canada or Button passed by his lips, I know cuz I watched it...... .

Apologies Mephistopheles, you're quite right... I got drawn into the Button / Canada thing (my own fault, but I couldn't resist), which is why I tried to get back on topic with post #88.

 

[Kewee]

I'm not posting on this thread anymore or any other that ends up in this same old ridiculous aruments that gets nobody no where.

I thought this was a thread on the Alonso interview, the only two drivers he mentioned were Lewis and Vettel, neither Canada or Button passed by his lips, I know cuz I watched it...... .

Apologies from me too Mephistopeies and unlike Chad I didn't even try to get back on topic. I'm just weak and easily lead.

 

[Bushi]

I have to say I agree with Alonso on this.

I think many will point to Italy 2008, however as much as Vettel was brilliant that Toro Rosso was actually rather good. Not to mention many of the 'big players' making stupid choices in qualifying and come Sunday they were out of the equation for the win. Only Kovalainen could have, and should have challenged Vettel for the win but I think most people will recognise that although Kovalainen is certainly no bad driver he isn't 'ace' material.

Hamilton has shown on a number of occasions (as has Alonso) that he can win without the best machinery. Just look at Singapore 2009, China 2011, and Germany 2011. Alonso has won without the best car in Singapore 2008 (just kidding! ), Japan 2008 and Singapore 2010 to name but a few. I try to think when Vettel hasn't had the best car and has won a race but I honestly can't think of any, only Italy 2008 comes to mind but I have explained my reasoning behind not counting that.

That Torro Rosso was pretty good, but was the Renault and the Mclaren that bad? I mean they might have won a race in the second or third fastest car on the grid. How is that a bigger achievement than Vettel did with Torro Rosso? He drove a back marker while Alonso and Hamilton drove top team cars.

And you say Singapore 2009, in my eyes that Mclaren was pretty good around that track like they are almost every year at Monaco. The year 2011, if Red Bull was the car to beat they only needed to beat one man, because the other one was nowhere to be seen in that RB. Even some Mclaren engineers found that they had the best car, so in a way Vettel won without the best machinery and Hamilton couldn't. Alonso's 2008 singapore win was a sham, Japan 2008 was a battle between Massa and Hamilton with a drive through for one of them. Singapore 2010 was a bad pitstop call from RB, if there aren't any overtaking spots on a track it's not that hard.

 

[teabagyokel]

They've been racing F1 cars from Faenza since 1986, they've started 448 races. This was first with Minardi and second with Toro Rosso. In all that time, they have achieved one pole position, and one podium. That was Sebastian Vettel's win from pole at Monza in 2008.

Its special. Its about as special, in fact, as winning a race in the Renault that year (as Alonso did - fairly - in Japan) or winning the title in the second best car (as Hamilton did).

That year, they all took their team-mates apart:

They have, between the three of them, been beaten by someone else they started a season with as a team-mate, on points, twice. Alonso by Trulli in 2004, Hamilton by Button in 2011.

They're three very talented, special drivers and they should all be celebrated. Lets not be the joyless bastards who have to produce a ranking for no reason.

 

[Speshal]

and there was I thinking this topic was veering dangerously back on topic....



TBH (or tby depending on how I'm feeling) I tend to agree with Fernando, just because Seb hasn't been in a shit car doesn't make him a bad driver, hell, I'd give my left ball for a tenth of his talent, but, in my mind there's a difference between a great driver and a great racer and I think that's what Fernando was trying to articulate.

Oooh and now I've invoked the time machine myself......

 

[johnnoble1990]

I watch those old Hamilton videos so much. The braking ability is superior to any driver I've ever seen. I really feel there was something else going on last year. I think most of the moves made on that video, Lewis pulled this year, yet they ended in collisions.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Wow. I think there is maybe one post mentioning Vettel over the last three pages. Just read through it all in the hope of finding something on-topic.

Dem worms is multiplying, homies.